Savage 99 restification project

[Pistolero]

There is a stock making company that makes a stock with three laminations, and the joints are
typically about invisible, so it looks like a solid, normal stock, but has the added stability
if different grain directions.
Would you be able to get three slabs that could be laminated up into a blank? Of course,
more important, would you consider that as an acceptable blank?

Bill

 

[Ian]

I might have it sorted. Tonight I went back to the woods and cut another trunk section just below the section I was working last night. Having learned the grain, rot, split, and worm patterns of this from the above piece, I was able to find one more piece in the last tree suitable for a buttstock. After whittling and chasing worm holes with a chisel, I finally got a solid piece with no cracks, about 2.5" thick, and with a flowing S pattern to match the curve of the stock with correct grain through the wrist. Fingers crossed.

Good news is I have enough good wood for about 3,000 fore-ends, including my choice of pieces above, below, and adjacent to the last buttstock blank.

The green outline is what I settled on. I could turn it the other way and the structural grain would flow just as well, but I'd lose the pretty knot in the middle and the grain would be a little more chippy in the wrist area due to being near a couple of pin knots that I basically sawed through at the end of the blank. It's better to have plain, straight grain at the receiver end and capture some more of the figure in the butt end. The blank at upper right has a diagonal crack through the butt end, flowing up toward the comb along the dark grain line, the one in the middle has a 1/4" bug hole on the top left wrist, angling directly to the center of the wrist right near the rear tang area, and the blank standing on end has the same crack as the first (bookmatched piece) only it's worse.

 

[Gary]

I have a piece of Black Cherry my neighbor and I milled over 10 years ago that's just been setting in the shop and I'd gladly donate to your cause if your blanks don't work out. I measured the board and it's 6+ inches wide and 38" long. Kinda suspect though, it's only 1.5" thick. I have enjoyed this thread very much.
BTW, you do really good woodworking.

 

[Pistolero]

Good luck with that. Your Swede stock is a real work of art, extremely impressed with your
checkering. I purchased some basic checkering tools some years back, but have never
really sat down and tried doing some on a chunk of walnut.

That gun is going to be a work of art when you are done, I will bet.

Bill

 

[fiver]

I will give you a tip.
measure from your cheek bone up to your pupil.
make the top of your top of stock to the center of your rear sight the same height.
measure from your front sight back and leave an extra 1/4" on the stock for final fitting.
then shoot the thing [rasp, sand and flatten] before doing your final stock finish.

 

[Ian]

I put the original stock back on it after fitting the new barrel and noticed it pointed differently. Turns out the receiver face being out of square with the threads actually caused some barrel droop. Now that the receiver face is squared and lapped to the new barrel shoulder, there is less apparent "drop" to the stock and receiver. I'm definitely going to leave the comb rough and high at first, put a little less drop angle in it, and put more "perch belly" to the bottom curve of the stock to raise the butt plate up maybe half an inch.

 

[Pistolero]

What about taping foam or corrugated cardboard spacers onto the original stock
to build it up to what you like, then shoot it for a while to be certain you like the
setup before cutting any wood at all?

Bill

 

[fiver]

you also have the option of a parallel comb so that if your wearing a coat or change the length of pull for a kid later on, the eye to sight height doesn't ever change as your head moves in and out on the stock.
and you can lower the drop of the heel of the stock to your shoulder so you have a more natural heads up shooting posture while maintaining a good stock to shoulder mount.

both of those things are important for fast follow up shots that are accurate.

the foam and spandex wrap are what I used on my shotgun if you remember.
right now I am building a new front rib to line my eye up and adjust the POI.
it's made from some 3/8" fir strips, 1/4" height spacers, white glue, and paper tape.
once I find the proper up/down eye-head-POI alignment combination I will have the smith make me a permanent rib and mount it with the proper sight spacing.

 

[Ian]

Parallel combs are the way to go for just about any shoulder-fired gun, but on this one there's so much natural drop in the stock/receiver that it would take a Monte Carlo-style for a good mount and heads-up shooting position. Shotguns can get away with a straight comb and not a lot of buttpad drop relative to bore because most shooters lean forward and sort of lay on top of the gun, plus they're usually shooting UP. That position doesn't work well for levering, but I'm probably going to have to compromise. Cardboard and tape on the original stock like Bill suggested would be a good way to do some figuring ahead of time, before roughing the stock.

BTW, my pupil to top of comb measurement for a parallel comb is 1-5/8". An 1873 Winchester rifle points with the muzzle about 1.5" below the top of the receiver, but a Marlin 336 with a straight stock and open sights points perfectly for me, I can mount it with my eyes closed and be looking down the sights when I open them, every time.

 

[Pistolero]

Sounds like mocking up the original stock to be similar to the 336 would be a good starting point.

Bill

 

[fiver]

your eye height is about 1/8" different than mine.

the old way of shotgunning was to lay the head on the stock, and in some pictures it even appears that is still being done, but it only appears that way because of how close they are to the front of the stock now.
the new way is more like the English style except that the comb now comes up to the cheek under the eye instead of sliding up to the jaw line and back to the shoulder, with a little head roll to set things in place.

the extra height of the comb is matched by a higher rib height, and the high shooting at a rising target is accomplished by comb height. [raising the rear sight /your eye/ up or down or left to right]
once the "what you see" is accomplished
then the rib is tilted [or slightly raised or lowered] so that it appears flat or nearly flat to the shooter, this has a minimal affect on poi/poa and one more final adjustment is made from there.

I'm still running old school equipment but I have been reading and learning stock fitting over the last year.
a lot of stuff has changed in the 20 years I have been out of the game, and implementing some of it has meant cutting and chopping up some [expensive] equipment.
I'm almost shooting as well as I was when I was 30 and could actually see just from applying what I have learned.
now if only I would not slip back into the old gun mounting habits occasionally I'll get those other 2 birds, one more handicap yardage punch and get my AA-27-AA status back again.
hopefully by the end of this summer I will have it back in both the ATA and PITA.

 

[S Mac]

I've been following this with interest. When it comes to the stock doesn't the wood need to dry for an extended period, at least a year or two?

 

[fiver]

optimally it would air dry for a few years.
in this case it has had decent stabilization time and enough heat to prevent warping.
it's also not leaving the climate it has stabilized in.

 

[Ian]

Normally the wood needs to season after being cut up into blanks or at least ripped and de-barked. For most species a minimum of one year per inch of thickness is the "rule of thumb" for air-drying. These trees have more or less seasoned in place and only need a few months to stabilize after being cut. They begin to crack on the ends and relax within minutes of being cut, and within a day or two the ends will check pretty badly if they aren't waxed almost immediately. In this case I'm racing against time, with small pieces being all that's left and live larvae working inside them, so I'm rough-profiling blanks and seeing if they will even work before wasting any time or hope on waiting for them to season any further. In a way, it's best to get the blanks shaped and a coat of oil on them as soon as possible, then plan on dealing with the cracks that develop later by doing a final slurry sand and finish. Wild, slow-growing black cherry from the semi-arid region here is a very challenging wood to cure.

If you have the luxury of working with proper-sized blanks, with plenty of excess and no bugs, it's always best to wax the ends and air dry them for as many years as possible. I've found some nice pieces on fleabay that are properly seasoned and plenty large to ensure no surprise cracks, but I'd rather have an imperfect piece from family property than a plain, perfect piece from Va. or somewhere.

This morning I whittled some more on the blank with my table saw, it will work but has 2-3 tiny bug holes and one old split which should clean up. I also roughed out a forearm.







Chasing a stock in this mess may all be a waste of time, but if it works out it will be worth it to me.

 

[S Mac]

So these were standing dead trees?

I have some crotch cut black walnut that has laying in my shop, has developed some nasty cracks, beautiful grain.

 

[Ian]

Yes, standing dead trees. I'm not sure exactly when the one that the blanks above were cut from finally lost it's valiant fight, but it was 2-3 years ago. I should have cut it sooner, but it was in the far back corner of my property and I don't get back there much. There are two more standing dead ones left, one died 2-3 years ago, and the other lost the last puny green sprouts out of the top last year, so I know it's gone and I need to get it down and cut up to season for later projects. These trees haven't had much green at all on them for at least 20 years, it's been a very slow dying process for them starting in the early '80s when we had a record drought. They all have been rotting out from the inside faster they they've grown on the outside ever since, which makes it really difficult to get good wood from them.

 

[waco]

Awesome thread. I'm impressed with your many talents Ian. Fine work indeed. I'll continue watching and waiting...

 

[Pistolero]

How to kill any live larva? Heat, or monoxide or what?

 

[Ian]

Good question. Cherrywood is sometimes steamed or kiln treated by commercial lumber outfits before seasoning to prevent internal checking as it dries, that ought to kill the buggars. The tiny beetles that ate half the pecan doors off my kitchen cabinets were finally killed out by a very determined friend of mine in the pest control business, he researched a bunch and mixed two different things together, sprayed the wood, and ended a three year fight with them in one shot. That was 4/4 wood, though, and it was already peppered with little holes. This is why I try to cut around them and eliminate them altogether, but as you can see in the photos, there are some small holes in this stock. The one through the right side of the wrist comes out the bottom where the bottom tang will be inletted, so I can make sure it's clear. There's one in the right side, right smack in the middle of the buttstock, and two next to each other in the center of the perch belly curve on the bottom. The thing that concerns me is there are two in and only one out, meaning there might be a live one in there somewhere which could wreck the stock in a few years if I don't dig it out with piano wire.

 

[Pistolero]

Maybe wrap in plastic with a bit of water in it, then put into 250F oven for half an
hour?
good luck, hate to lose a nice stock to some damned bug.

Bill