Substitute for Alliant 2400?

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richhodg66

Well-Known Member
I picked a pound of Enforcer a few days ago and coincidentally, a new to me .44. I'll give the stuff a try, but I'm really interested in how it substitutes for 3400 in cast rifle loads.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
JWinAZ said:
For modest loads in .30-30, .30-40, and .30-'06. 150 to 210 grain with GC.

Given the success with 2400 with these types of loads, is there anything else that comes close? Or should I be patient and wait until it returns?
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9-10 grains of Unique in the .30-30, 10-12 in the Krag, and 13-15 in the '06. You will need to work up the loads to the tenth as it will show barrel nodes like no other powder in a rifle cartridge. When you get a vertical string, add just a little more to close it up.
 
TXTad

TXTad

Active Member
richhodg66 said:
I picked a pound of Enforcer a few days ago and coincidentally, a new to me .44. I'll give the stuff a try, but I'm really interested in how it substitutes for 3400 in cast rifle loads.
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Same. Also WC-244 in lieu of Unique or Red Dot for mild rifle loads.
 
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BudHyett

Active Member
Looking to replace 2400 when it was very scarce, I contacted VihtaVuori for their suggestion. This is my request in Bold and their reply below the line. Note their concern in my original request for N-110 with the low fill ratio and their concern for detonation. I've bought two pounds of N340 and will soon be testing it for in the coming weeks.

"Do you have the ability to calculate an equivalent load using N-110 in .30-'06 to my current load using 18.0 grains Alliant 2400 and a 205-grain cast (linotype alloy) bullet? This would be about 1600 feet-per-second since we are only punching paper at 100 and 200 yards. I'm using this load in the Cast Bullet Association Military Rifle competition and would like to switch to VihtaVuori powder as I find it more consistent. I'm currently using 24.5 grains of N-135 in .308 Winchester with a 205-grain bullet in both a Remington 700 VLS and a Savage 12BVSS with great success."
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is their reply.

"Thank you for getting back with us. We are hesitant to do this due to the very low fill ratio that would need to be used and this brings in concerns for the potential of a detonation condition. For getting to these lower velocities, we would actually recommend using N340 as a better choice for use with these velocities.

"We are glad to forward our unpublished VihtaVuori Load Data for use with the .30-06 Springfield using the Lyman 311299 LRNGC 205gr bullet with our line of VihtaVuori powders".

1701040692531.png
 
R

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
BudHyett said:
Looking to replace 2400 when it was very scarce, I contacted VihtaVuori for their suggestion. This is my request in Bold and their reply below the line. Note their concern in my original request for N-110 with the low fill ratio and their concern for detonation. I've bought two pounds of N340 and will soon be testing it for in the coming weeks.

"Do you have the ability to calculate an equivalent load using N-110 in .30-'06 to my current load using 18.0 grains Alliant 2400 and a 205-grain cast (linotype alloy) bullet? This would be about 1600 feet-per-second since we are only punching paper at 100 and 200 yards. I'm using this load in the Cast Bullet Association Military Rifle competition and would like to switch to VihtaVuori powder as I find it more consistent. I'm currently using 24.5 grains of N-135 in .308 Winchester with a 205-grain bullet in both a Remington 700 VLS and a Savage 12BVSS with great success."
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is their reply.

"Thank you for getting back with us. We are hesitant to do this due to the very low fill ratio that would need to be used and this brings in concerns for the potential of a detonation condition. For getting to these lower velocities, we would actually recommend using N340 as a better choice for use with these velocities.

"We are glad to forward our unpublished VihtaVuori Load Data for use with the .30-06 Springfield using the Lyman 311299 LRNGC 205gr bullet with our line of VihtaVuori powders".

View attachment 37207
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Don't have a cast bullet manual in front of me, but those numbers for 340 sure look about what 2400 would be like.
 
TXTad

TXTad

Active Member
BudHyett said:
Looking to replace 2400 when it was very scarce, I contacted VihtaVuori for their suggestion. This is my request in Bold and their reply below the line. Note their concern in my original request for N-110 with the low fill ratio and their concern for detonation. I've bought two pounds of N340 and will soon be testing it for in the coming weeks.

"Do you have the ability to calculate an equivalent load using N-110 in .30-'06 to my current load using 18.0 grains Alliant 2400 and a 205-grain cast (linotype alloy) bullet? This would be about 1600 feet-per-second since we are only punching paper at 100 and 200 yards. I'm using this load in the Cast Bullet Association Military Rifle competition and would like to switch to VihtaVuori powder as I find it more consistent. I'm currently using 24.5 grains of N-135 in .308 Winchester with a 205-grain bullet in both a Remington 700 VLS and a Savage 12BVSS with great success."
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is their reply.

"Thank you for getting back with us. We are hesitant to do this due to the very low fill ratio that would need to be used and this brings in concerns for the potential of a detonation condition. For getting to these lower velocities, we would actually recommend using N340 as a better choice for use with these velocities.

"We are glad to forward our unpublished VihtaVuori Load Data for use with the .30-06 Springfield using the Lyman 311299 LRNGC 205gr bullet with our line of VihtaVuori powders".

View attachment 37207
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I have never used VihtaVuori powders before, but this kind of customer service makes me want to.
 
Rick H

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I was always impressed with VihtaVuori powder spec's that I saw in reloading manuals and articles. I steered clear of them as soon as I looked at the price. They USED to cost twice that of IMR, Hodgdon, WW, or Alliant. Those powders did what I wanted so why pay twice as much? With the insane across the board increase in powder prices VV powders look more reasonable. I'm in no hurry to change over, but they are now on my radar.
 
3

300BLK

Well-Known Member
I’m leery of using ball powder in low density loads in rifle cartridges. AA LT30 is a powder that I would like to try, but it’s burn rate should make it closer to RL 7 than 2400.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
JonB said:
I found a online PDF for their load data portion only, of their 2002 reloading manual.

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yesterday, when I found this PDF, I was actually looking for a paper copy of a VV manual, paper is my preference. Boy they aren't cheap, I guess they are kinda rare in the US? I don't recall ever seeing one at a gunshow, but then like Rick H said, VV powders weren't on my radar either back then.
Anyway, I picked out one of the ebay listings for a 1st edition Hardcover (1994), looked for a seller that didn't have a lot of other reloading stuff, and made a low offer. I didn't mention it yesterday, cuz I figured they wouldn't take my offer...well, they did...so it's on it's way to Glencoe.
Bummer that it doesn't have any 41 mag data, but then the 2002 PDF only has two bullet weights. Mostly, I am curious how the reloading instruction information translates in a English text book published in Finland. AND, maybe I find more VV powder to buy in the future?

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popper

Well-Known Member
I use VV340 to simulate WSF for BO. Shot a bunch last week, numbers looked good and the kids (12 & 16 yr olds) loved it. About 1600 fps, a bit slower than my A-2400 load. Didn't try it in AR pistol to verify cycling, used CVA SS.
 
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B

BudHyett

Active Member
Rick H said:
They USED to cost twice that of IMR, Hodgdon, WW, or Alliant. With the insane across the board increase in powder prices VV powders look more reasonable. I'm in no hurry to change over, but they are now on my radar.
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I concur, price is a consideration. Another definition of the CBA is Cheap Bullet Association. Cast bullets give more bang for the buck. I started shooting cast bullets when I bought a Marlin 1895 .45-70 and grew when I had a severe concussion in 1983. The recoil from standard jacketed loads brought on severe headaches. Cast loads were far less recoil.

Competing, the cost of traveling to matches over a year's time is considerable. The added cost of a few cents per round is miniscule in comparison. Plus the cost of VV powders is coming down relative to the price of the competitors. I shudder to think the price of 8 pounds of 2400 recently bought is half again more than the first Model 70 Varminter .22-.250 with a Weaver 4X12 scope I bought in 1968.
 
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