TITEGROUP
- Thread starter shootnlead
- Start date
shootnlead
Active Member
I may have a new favorite plinker powder. Got out there this afternoon and loaded 97rds of Lee 208gr full wadcutters ( 214grs, my bullets) with 4.0grs of titegroup, using Lyman handbook data. I am impressed...clean, clean, clean burning and more accurate than I am. Beats the pants off BE in the Special (much cleaner)...and is better than 231, also, in my opinion. I didn't chrono...wish I had, now...but there is really no point...just seemed like they were a little livelier than the BE and 231 loads. I shot them in my Cimarron Model P, Ruger New Vaquero and my son's Charter Target...did great in all 3 guns. I have a couple of Flattop Blackhawks that I will try them in...I am sure the results will be the same.
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shootnlead
Active Member
I tried something today, that it did not seem to work too well with...but, I will give it another go and see it repeats the performance of today. I attempted to load some 1000fps .357 plinking loads for the LCR. I used Lyman handbook data and the deviation was all over the place...as much as 100fps, with 50fps being common. Now, I don't understand this, even though I was using mixed headstamp brass. I am going to load about 50 more and try again...have the feeling it may be the same.
Despite today's experience, I am completely sold on it...it has worked so well in the others...and it is without a doubt, the best metering and cleanest burning powder that I have ever used.
Despite today's experience, I am completely sold on it...it has worked so well in the others...and it is without a doubt, the best metering and cleanest burning powder that I have ever used.
Ian
Notorious member
I'll throw something out there about Titegroup that may help explain the erratic behavior. It's going to be all burned in an inch or two, unlike the usual Alliant powders (even BE won't all burn in a 6" barrel most of the time), so any inconsistencies in bullet pull can be sort of amplified. Also, Titegroup is very sensitive to variances in case internal capacity (even though it isn't very position sensitive), so that could be introducing some variables too. Try it with a matched lot of newish brass and see if that doesn't improve things.
F
freebullet
Guest
I'd dial that charge back a scooch. A dab more crimp could help to. I doubt the same test will net different results unless you tighten the crimp just a smidgen, or dial the charge back with your current crimp. Those spreads & poor accuracy is normally what's encountered just before you learn tg is peaky.
Ian
Notorious member
That's the truth.
I wasn't paying very close attention to the LCR thing. 1.8" barrel that is. If it's a .357 Magnum would take a little more than a double-over-pressure load of Titegroup to get 1,000 fps out of an LCR using 158 grain LSWCs. I have four Lyman books and none of them list Titegroup loads for any bullet. 5.5 grains at max SAAMI COAL is bumping into the upper 80% of pressure, which for a .357 is the beginning of the danger zone with Titegroup. What am I missing here?
shootnlead
Active Member
I crimp all of my loads pretty well, so the crimp is good. I had already tried the minimum load listed on the data...so, I was not too keen on going lower...though, it would have been from a pressure stand point, but it would drop the velocity down into .38spec territory and I was wanting light magnum loads.
Tried it again, today...essentially the same results...not very consistent. I was not using mag primers...that might help. Anyway, I just went back to BE for the light mag load and it was very consistent at about 1025fps...deviation of about 11fps.
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freebullet
Guest
I wasn't sure if he meant .357 bullets but, the lcr is a 38 maybe. Or if the lcr is a mag. Then we didn't get the charge or bullet weight. So was urging caution because 357 data is ALL over the place as far as charge weights go.
I load for my mother's lcr in 38. The bullets must be .358-.359 for it. I don't recall how much tg the load is but, wanna say 3ish gr under the lee 140swc for somewhere around 700-800fps iirc. Very clean, moderate, & accurate.
If the crimp is good & it's not an inconsistent ignition issue, which is normally not the case with tg then, I'm guessing your just past its happy zone. That does happen in numerous loads where it craps out just before 1k. Some book data for 357 doesn't jive as starting loads for some of today's tiny light weapons. I always get 2 or more data sources for 357 specifically because of that.
Edit to add-
the only way I can maintain accuracy at the top end with tg is to use a tougher bullet/alloy. It's the top performer in 380 acp but, the bullet must be tough enough or accuracy is gone.
I load for my mother's lcr in 38. The bullets must be .358-.359 for it. I don't recall how much tg the load is but, wanna say 3ish gr under the lee 140swc for somewhere around 700-800fps iirc. Very clean, moderate, & accurate.
If the crimp is good & it's not an inconsistent ignition issue, which is normally not the case with tg then, I'm guessing your just past its happy zone. That does happen in numerous loads where it craps out just before 1k. Some book data for 357 doesn't jive as starting loads for some of today's tiny light weapons. I always get 2 or more data sources for 357 specifically because of that.
Edit to add-
the only way I can maintain accuracy at the top end with tg is to use a tougher bullet/alloy. It's the top performer in 380 acp but, the bullet must be tough enough or accuracy is gone.
shootnlead
Active Member
2.9grs is not past the happy zone, it is the starting load for 148gr wadcutter...and it was not more consistent with higher charges up to the max load...it is the .357 not the .38spec. This load was in the Lee manual...
TG worked well for the .38spec loads...just as well as it did with the 44 special. I will try to load some .45acp pretty soon, it should work great in that.
As I said...I solved the problem...changed bullets and went with BE...for the .357mag plinkers.
This was just an experiment, anyway.
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freebullet
Guest
I see..
What size are the bullets?
What size are the bullets?
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I use it all the time, on my third 8 lber now for mostly .45 ACP, and a lot of other ones, too.
For .44 Spl, I have used about 4.2 gr under several different bullets for plinking loads. Works
fine, since they are essentially a rimmed, revolver near-equivelant of .45 ACP.
Meters nicely, near identical to BE in .45 ACP, should be about the same for .44 Spl.
Bill
For .44 Spl, I have used about 4.2 gr under several different bullets for plinking loads. Works
fine, since they are essentially a rimmed, revolver near-equivelant of .45 ACP.
Meters nicely, near identical to BE in .45 ACP, should be about the same for .44 Spl.
Bill
fiver
Well-Known Member
like I said where it works it works well, where it don't there ain't no hope.
I was debating some T-group or some bulls-eye in the 357 with some powder coated 148gr wad cutters today and went with the bulls-eye [6grs]
I just wanted something in the 1-K range in the 6" Rossi.
little recoil, more a flip of the muzzle than anything.
I didn't have my boots on when I went down to the range so I just picked out a dark patch in the snow, and stepped out of the truck door.
it was shooting about 6 clicks low on the rear sight compared to the 800 fps load I was using so it's about right on the speed.
I think i'll drop the load down to about 5.5-5.6 since it's just for poking holes in paper and knocking over some steel plates.
I was debating some T-group or some bulls-eye in the 357 with some powder coated 148gr wad cutters today and went with the bulls-eye [6grs]
I just wanted something in the 1-K range in the 6" Rossi.
little recoil, more a flip of the muzzle than anything.
I didn't have my boots on when I went down to the range so I just picked out a dark patch in the snow, and stepped out of the truck door.
it was shooting about 6 clicks low on the rear sight compared to the 800 fps load I was using so it's about right on the speed.
I think i'll drop the load down to about 5.5-5.6 since it's just for poking holes in paper and knocking over some steel plates.
