Various Low Node Rifle Targets I have shot

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Hi Folks,
When I spoke to Brad about adding this sub-forum the one thing I wanted to start off with is some targets from various rifles showing the potential
for using light target loads in all caliber rifles. I know that we have here far more knowledgeable people who know more of the technology and physics of what is happening with a cast bullet on launch & hopefully they will chime in to give more details to add to my simple explanation of this type of shooting.
First off; I have to thank Ben for turning me on to this style of shooting early on in my cast bullet rifle phase. I stared out with a 98 8mm mauser & cast and at that time I was being instructed in the use of standard jacketed bullet powders! Dumping 30 to 45 grains in a case and putting tuffs of dacron in the cases and it wasn't fun! Then I found the Mil Surp load of 16 gr 2400 I shot accurate and not bad recoil wise and lost a few teachers. Yes then Ben....He made it look so easy and guess what?..... it was!
Why? I find it fun, it doesn't tax my body as do full loads and I'm just as happy at 50 yd shooting ( where I can see better) It also gives me the ability to shoot a heck of a lot more per range trip then if I were using full loads and very cheaply!

I know the forum has been up for awhile but recently I have been down with a bad chest cold and now am recovering from hand surgery so there was a delay on my part. I'm happy to see folks already posting to this sub-forum.

First off I'm going to show a few targets that were shot plenty slow. They not be excellent targets but show good low node performance:

First Rifle is a very worn Sewer pipe bore 1916 Spanish Mauser. I'm using an interesting bullet in it that really made it become a target rifle ( in my book)
It is the very long and heavy (180gr) Lyman 287221 which was designed by C.H. Herrick for the .28-30-120 Stevens It was made in three different weights the 180 being the heaviest. While I have shot it faster with good results I have settled on a load of 7.0 Gr American Select ( I do get some slight tipping of the bullet at this load at 50 yds but it is still the most accurate load! ) Approximate speed is 900 FPS
SpainMauser 12-9-18.jpg
 
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JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Just for the record: I trust we are all good experienced handloaders here who know to never start with someones given load ! Always work up!
Also Small amounts of fast powders in large cases is not going to be dangerous unless you get sloppy. The potential for double loads is heightened with Low Node Shooting! Please use common sense and extremely good bench practices!
When my cases are primed they are placed primer up on one side of my bench. Each load is hand weighed! And once powder is in case it is placed on the opposite side of my bench! This prevents an error ( for Me) You must find what is best for you!
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Ok Let take the 243 Winchester! Using NOE's 246-105 mould some American Select powder ( 4.8 to 5.7 grains) and get the speed to 950 fps ( 50 yards)
9-19-18 NOE 105 gr AmSel PD'd.jpeg
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Again Lets try the .223 Rem in a 78 Sportsman bolt action 3.3 grain American Select (Approx 1075 fps)

3-18-18B Target2 55gr MX PB wPC- AmSelect.jpeg
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Just a few more targets that I'm happy with! You will notice that the 358 winchester target was shot at 100 yds with what I call a beefy load but it was a very heavy bullet! ( note: all large black bull targets were shot with Receiver sights....all bench rest style targets were shot with scopes)
4-2-17Tgt2.jpg35Rem-155RN-BE-Ben.jpg296gr009-100yds.jpg287221-1916-3-23-18.jpg
 
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JWFilips

Well-Known Member
I thought showing these targets would give folks a chance to ask questions, add comments & maybe share some of their Low Node targets and loads!
Jim
 

GWarden

Member
Jim
Thanks for the info. Question: has anyone done a comparison with PB bullets vs. GC bullets with the checks left off? Reason for that , last summer shot a CBA postal where it was required to shoot bullets with out GC at a 50yd match. I was shooting the Lyman 311284 without the GC and had good results, no leading . Shooting in 30.06 & 30.40, using sr4759 powder with velocity just a bit over 1400fps. Bullet mix is 15#lead- 25#mag shot-2%tin. I have used this mix for several years, shoots better than the Lyman #2 mix or other mixes that I call hard in all my rifles. Will be trying this season using 25:1 mix with the same bullet without GC. Merry Christmas
bob
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
Comments below from my own experiences, yours can and will vary :
______________________________

If one of my moulds cast a g/c bullet , it gets a g/c.
If I want to shoot bullets without a g/c, I use a plain base design.

Trying to shoot g/c design bullets without the check has NEVER worked very well for me.

Ben
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I've done it in my revolvers at some pretty low speeds with good 'for me' success.
never tried it in a rifle, but if I did it would be with a powder coated bullet.

JW just a comment on the first target with the slight tipping.
maybe try a hotter primer.
it might not help but it might be just that little bit more.
I know in some of my slow loads a cooler primer will push my groups from good to not good.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Ok from all my testing if bullets are PC'd the non gas checked( GC design ) bullets shoot better then the plain base for me. With traditional lube, the plain base bullets shoot better then the non gas checked GC bullets.
PC coating does interesting things to bullets: for instance it has made my sewer pipe barreled mil surps shoot great when they could never shoot ant tradional lubed bullets well.
fiver ; I rembemered you help me with a different rifle doing this but I was using large pistol primers. A switch to large rifle helped. I guess in this case I would need a mag primer? I'm using CCI 200 now
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
you could just try a federal or a Winchester.
remember primers are not all made up of the same material, their ignition heat or particles will light off powders differently.
try what you have first, if you have mag primers then go with those too.


I think a lot of people would be surprised at how many [and what] places I do use mag primers more than in the places I don't use them.
but I do almost always try different primers as part of my load development, about the only time I don't is when I put together a load, go shoot it, and see results I'm happy with right off the bat. [why bother at that point right?]
but if I'm seeing something that could pose a problem like when the weather changes or maybe when i might want to shoot just a bit further, then i definitely I try to fix it.
 

Bret4207

St Lawrence river valley, NY
Nice to see someone showing his 10 shot targets. 5 shots tell a lot more than 3 and 10 way more than 5. Low an slow is good for a lot of stuff IMO!
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
Ok from all my testing if bullets are PC'd the non gas checked( GC design ) bullets shoot better then the plain base for me. With traditional lube, the plain base bullets shoot better then the non gas checked GC bullets.
Exactly my findings as well in multiple calibers over the years.
 

GWarden

Member
I mentioned I had shot in a CBA postal match that required PB bullets and was shot at 50yds. I was using GC bullets but leaving the GC off. It looks like I need to get the same bullet that is PB and see how they shoot in comparison. The pic pretty well tells what my load was. I saw a tremendous difference in group size when I tried faster burning powders, groups opened up. Rifle Rem 700- 30.06
bob
IMG_2375.jpeg
 
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JWFilips

Well-Known Member
GW
were you using traditional lube? Interesting that faster powder opened up the groups( maybe too much powder) I have always found slow powders best at 1600 fps plus but at 1200 fps and lower The fast powders excel
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Hi Folks I have some more targets to post but I just want to be sure we are on the same wavelength here. I'm not posting these targets to say "hey look at my targets"! I'm posting them to show the potential & fun of low velocity shooting !
Also many of these targets I'm posting I hope are self explanatory.... I'm scanning them high enough for you to enlarge and read data. If this is not working let me know.
OK here are some recent 358 Win targets at 50 yds. These were all PC ( I have been testing PC all year in all my rifles)
You may even see what I call HOT loads of 15 gr 2400 :rolleyes: !
3-17-18.jpg3-8-18 -2400.jpg3-8-18 -AmSel.jpg

Just want to mention these are scanned in B&W I use a highlighter to color the center dot in the square on these Bench Rest targets
but it saves space on the forum
Jim
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
I also just want to mention something ( Going back to post 1 - first 1916 Spainish Mauser Target)
I have to say at the point of this load where the bullets are slightly unstable it has been one of my most accurate loads! Go figure! Speed it up and the groups open up! However I'm not sure if the stabilty increases with distance or not because I have only shot this at 50 yds