Why I flux with sawdust...

Ian

Notorious member
Well, one of many reasons: It gets the junk out and leaves the good stuff in the casting pot.

Ever since reading Glen's article "The 'Simple' act of Fluxing" years ago and subsequently experimenting a great deal with various sorts of sawdust, shavings, pine resin, coffee grounds, wheat bran, stale breakfast cereal, sugar, and other things from the shop and pantry, my success rate using dirty, contaminated lead scrap for bullet casting has improved drastically.

Here are a couple of photos of what yellow pine debitage from underneath the router table can do to a pie plate full of skimmings saved up from multiple casting sessions with a batch of very ornery clip-on wheel weight alloy. I didn't flux at all during all that casting, just stirred vigorously to make a vortex and spooned-off the big mats of dross that accumulated and saved them. The alloy didn't flow well and cast small, so anything that floated I wanted OUT and not fluxed back in. All of those sessions were run by dumping sprues back in the pot as I went, so oxide accumulation was heavy. I took the 1/3-full pie plate of accumulated dross and dumped it all into 1/3 pot of same alloy, added a full cup of shavings, let it heat up until the shavings were smoking, then lit the fumes and let it burn while "turning" the mushy mat of goop over and over through the burning wood with a spoon. Just about the time the flames burned out I squeezed out most of the good alloy and skimmed the dirt, bigger bits of charcoal, and ash. I was amazed at how much "heavy dirt" came out; stuff that didn't reduce. All the clean lead alloy went back into solution except for the few little nuggets that got trapped with the spoon when skimming the ashes. You can see the little nuggets retrieved from the mess after it cooled, and the "dirt", and the charcoal. I don't know what's in that dirt stuff but it made it through one remelt/cleaning/ingotizing and a casting session before being reduced to metal again and the alloy resulting from reducing all that dross casts MUCH better now.

Can your beeswax do this?

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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Yep, that is why I clean my pot after every casting session. Put ingots into the pot, when at 710 degrees put in 1/2 teaspoon of beeswax (out of cigar butts since I quit smoking) and stir and scrap. Done in 60 seconds and good for 1/2 hour of dipping. I only use the sawdust when "rendering" wheel weights outside in the propane 50 pound crucible. For me, that is where sawdust or wood chips work better than anything else.
 

quicksylver

Well-Known Member
I don't have much of a choice..if I didn't use all the saw dust and shavings that my brother carefully gathers up and stores in contractors bags for me his feelings would really be hurt...

Too bad shipping is so much I could supply all here for life..

Really like the way it works...gets rid of the rubber smell from ww too...
 

Ian

Notorious member
I haven't cleaned my pot in probably two years, maybe three, and it's seen around 12-1500 lbs of alloy through it in that time. This alloy was fluxed three times with sawdust during the rendering in ~150-lb batches (normally that gets all the crud out), but this stuff didn't clean up fully as can be seen. I don't know what that brown powdered mess is but it's heavier than dirt and lighter than lead dust. About 80% of the dross reduced back into the pot as good alloy, the rest is now for certain trash, probably calcium, zink, maybe some aluminum, rust dust, a little fine dirt that wouldn't come out of suspension, who knows. There's very little ash and the bigger pieces of charcoal were skimmed before they had a chance to burn down.

Tobacco and coffee don't smell nearly as good in a casting pot as they do in their normal application, but they clean alloy just fine.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
In case you guys couldn't tell, I'm not that much of a social fellow. I don't have enough years left to do what I want to have to put up with all the "gun experts" that want to tell me what I am doing wrong. "The Duke said to do it this way..." So burning my cigar butts for flux was a good way to get rid of them, as long as I stripped outside, put my clothes in the washer and showered right away. Being married 50 years, I am well trained.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'm amazed at what I can pull out of an alloy sometimes.
you'll be running along with everything just fine then suddenly you got a pot full of dirt and black and you just keep squeezing silver out of it.
I eventually get miffed and just work all the black out and toss it and some of the silver in the garbage.
I'm amazed at the amount of dust that floats about in the garbage can after dumping out about 1/4 cup of gunk.
it's worse than cleaning out the wood stove.

I have most of a 2 gallon pail of oxides and skimmings I need to get reduced this summer.
I hate working with the stuff but there is like 50 lbs there, and I have a pound of antimonial ore I need to clean and melt in something too soo.
 

Brian Palmer

Active Member
Going to have to start tying sawdust, piles of it in the woodshop. I have always used the left over candles after the wic is gone.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
go easy with it and keep it on top of the melt.
work your alloy through the ashes on the top.
 

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
I cast all of my bullets from a bottom pour pot. I no longer use sawdust in my casting pot. When I first started casting I did. But it seemed like the sides of my pot always collected residue (ash) below the lead level. An when I started using just candle wax floating on the melted lead. My pot seemed like it stayed cleaner.
Could I not have been cleaning my lead enough when I rendered it from WW ? To cause the powdery residue in my casting pot.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Kevin, there is only one way possible for saw dust to get under the surface of the melt and that's if you physically force under the surface.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
How do you pour the alloy through the sawdust without pushing some below the surface?

Recently my bottom pour has given me fits with dirty looking bullets. I've cleaned the pot out and still have problems. Seems like it's worse when using sawdust in the pot.
 

Ian

Notorious member
How do you pour the alloy through the sawdust without pushing some below the surface?

Drizzle molten alloy through the sawdust layer with a spoon or big ladle. Biggest problem I've had with a bottom-pour giving me dross inclusions and dirty spots is due to throwing back cull bullets and sprues as I cast. Those solid bits of lead have an oxide layer on them and due to higher density than the molten alloy they sink straight to the bottom, then melt and deposit their oxide skins between the surface of the melted mass and bottom of the pot. Then those skins migrate to the spout due to the flow current and show up in your bullets. A vigorous scraping of the bottom of the pot with a spoon and then stir to create a nice vortex will bring this stuff out. Sawdust won't get down there unless it is stuck to a sprue and gets pulled all the way to the bottom, and even then it likely won't get outside of the surface tension of the melt and will float back up.

Scraping the bottom of the pot with a wood stick is a sure way to force ash deposits outside the surface skin of the melt on the bottom and get them in your bullets.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I use a mix of the wax and the carbon.
I get the wood to break down and char then slowly fold the alloy from the bottom to the top and roll it through the ashes after one single trip around the pot doing that I go to the wax and fire and work the sides and bottom of the pot with my scraper pulling everything to the top [omg the fine dirt]
then take everything off the pot and hit it with the wax and fire again this time stirring and swirling the alloy letting the burnt wax go through the alloy.
I pretty much leave the residue on top of the alloy this time unless I see a bunch of black again.
I crank up the heat when I do this.

I have tried kitty litter on top of the alloy which is fine for stopping splashes and to let sprues melt and filter through but I'm not really sold on the idea for a couple of other reasons.

I have mostly gone to really focusing on cleaning my alloy before it ever gets to my casting pot.
I work the alloy to tears in the initial cleaning, and then again when I do a re-blend of my smelted alloy.
I have found I rarely need to do a pot cleaning other than returning oxides [and maybe a dry scraping every now and then] by using clean alloy to cast with.
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Over the very many years of casting, I have never cleaned a pot!
Many years ago, someone recommended just sturring with a soft
wood stick (paint sutrrer or wood dowell. It worked back then, and
have been using just that since. I know that probably goes again
the grain, but it works for me.

Paul
 

Tony

Active Member
I have a box of deciduous chips from a stump grinding operation. Are these useful for flux when processing scrap into ingots?
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Finer is better, to a point. I use aspen pet bedding I got at the pet store. Works pretty well for me.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Could work Tony, it's not the wood per se that does the fluxing but as it chars and turns to carbon, the carbon does the work. Chips could work but take longer to burn to carbon.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I pour the lead thru the chips to get them starting to char. It makes lots of smoke but that is a good thing. Once the wood is pretty well charred I use a lighter and ignite it. The yellow, smoker flame means a fair amount of carbon monoxide is being produced. Carbon monoxide is a good reducing agent and in my opinion is what really helps get the oxides back into the melt.
Once the fire goes out keep stirring and pouring lead thru the carbon. The carbon will help grab the dirt and stuff we don't want. Things like calcium or aluminum.

Finer is better as it already has a fair bit of surface area and the surface is where the work is done.