223 with cast bullets??

johnnyjr

johnnyjr

Well-Known Member
Toying with the idea of shooting cast bullets in my match 223. Heavy barrel, etc.
Main issue is barrel twist. It has a 1/7 twist for 69 gr sierra match bullets. This is my f class rifle. The goal is 300 yards if possible. Maybe can't be done. So I'm looking for ideas or suggestions if possible.
Best alloy suggestions as well. Gas checks of course will be used..So tell me if it's worth a try. If not so be it.. thanks, johnny
 
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richhodg66

Well-Known Member
I have no plans to try at any real range but I'd like to try this for a sqirrel load. Pretty sure that can be done easily enough. I need to shoot my .223s more.
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
Sounds like "work" to me.;)

I tried it once with a really good-shooting CZ 527 Varmint with a 1:9" twist, but didn't have my heart in it. It didn't care for any of the first three loads I tried. I guess the bottom line comes down to two things:

1) I've always wanted a 222/1:14" (so I used the "poor-cast-shooting" 223 as an excuse to finally get one);

2) I like casting and loading for guns which are not fussy about what I feed them.

I'm not lazy, really, I just like stuff like that - something which is more universally amenable to basic casting and hand-loading maneuvers - simpler means, methods, etc.

I think if you have a good-shooting 223 to begin with, you can make it shoot, but you'd have to do a lot more than I do with my mongrel alloys, not heat-treat, casual visual inspection, etc.

As to "squirrel loads," as mentioned by @richhodg66 , I think that would be easy enough, at least to 50 yards. Might take some fussing, but even with my "requirements," it's not hard to get 1" groups at 50 yards with one. I'm shooting a 222 with a 1:14" twist and half-inch, five-shot groups are just a few thousandths beyond my means at the moment, but I'm not shooting much right now. That's with no weight sorting, no special alloy and using fast(ish) pistol powders.

300? Maybe. If I were to attempt that range with cast, I'd start out with something 30 cal or larger, because I THINK it would be easier to achieve. Not actually lazy, but have extremely limited time to goof off, so I'm not bored enough with closer ranges yet, because I don't get that much done in the little time I have to do it.
 
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richhodg66

Well-Known Member
I found the squirrel load thing to be surpirsingly easy in a couple of .22 Hornets. In fact, it was the reason for me getting a Hornet and when I got what I wanted, I stopped messing with it, so never really looked into making it a "real" Hornet.

Gonna try the same thing with a .218 Bee, but I probably will use gas checks and try to get a little more juice out of that than the light loads I used in the Hornet.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
First, use an alloy with pretty close to balanced parts of tin and antimony, something like 2.5/2.5 up to 5/5, it isn't all that important the total as it is the equal parts.

Second, powder coat the bullets with a full-gloss polyester TGIC powder such as Eastwood sells. Seat gas checks and size bullets before coating, size again afterward to something like .225" on the driving bands.

Third, load like jacketed bullets but make sure you have a good neck expander that flares and doesn't allow more than 1.5 thousandths interference fit with the bullets. Best plan is to neck size fired brass and only size the neck enough to hold the bullet securely. Use the crimping die to just barely iron out the flare enough that the cartridges will chamber easily. H335, H322, IMR 3031, and Win 748 all work, use starting jacketed loads from your manual for same bullet weight as your finished cast bullets end up.
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
richhodg66 said:
I found the squirrel load thing to be surpirsingly easy in a couple of .22 Hornets. In fact, it was the reason for me getting a Hornet and when I got what I wanted, I stopped messing with it, so never really looked into making it a "real" Hornet.

Gonna try the same thing with a .218 Bee, but I probably will use gas checks and try to get a little more juice out of that than the light loads I used in the Hornet.
Click to expand...

I originally got a Hornet (Handi-Rifle) myself, plus dies, brass, etc., but as I accumulated the stuff and thought more about it, I decided the long-wanted 222 wasn't so big a case that it wouldn't still be pretty efficient for the intended application. IF I ever decide I want more OOmph from a 22, I have the latitude - I could load it like a 22 LR, a 222 or a Hornet, but that line can be drawn as easily at the 223 level. It's not THAT much bigger.


@Ian makes my point about this sounding like "work.";)

NOT to demean the desire, the effort, knowledge and experience. I admire and respect all that, but I just prefer chasing something a little different - a little differently. Still intrigued enough to maybe check out the higher-velocity/longer-range cast realm sometime.

I have a bunch of 22 caliber bullets cast up and PC'd to see just what I can get out of the 222 if I ever get time to do it. I've got the 30/30 lined up for this summer, but maybe I'll change my mind and push the 222 a little.
 
Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
@johnnyjr
I've got some Powder coated Plain Base left from my .AR15 plain base experiment.

61 grain Elvis slick side, plain base. .224. Powder coated heavy with Eastwood maroon. Basically an alloy between Lyman 2 and hardball.

Not sure if they could be Checked or not. But if you want to fiddle you are welcome to them.
I really believe I could have gotten them to the point of 1 moa or less if I had went with a bolt action, and 6064 powder.
I still have the mould BTW if they were to end up sucessful.
I also have does including the modified bullet sizing die and the modified flaring die. From that thread.
 
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Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
I've got some Powder coated Plain Base left from my .AR15 plain base experiment.

61 grain Elvis slick side, plain base. .224. Powder coated heavy with Eastwood maroon. Basically an alloy between Lyman 2 and hardball.

Not sure if they could be Checked or not. But if you want to fiddle you are welcome to them.
I really believe I could have gotten them to the point of 1 moa or less if I had went with a bolt action, and 6064 powder. I have since moved on to other things. Went to 450 BM AR15, which was way easier to get 300 yard hunting kills, and good operation, with self loaded lead. Once I figured out how to read for drop.

I still have the mould BTW if they were to end up successful.
 
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richhodg66

Well-Known Member
In reality, the .222 is the best of the .22 centerfires, especially for cast. I only own one, a Savage 340. Hasn't shot cast very well, maybe I just haven't found what it likes. One day, a really nice .222 is on the bucket list, probably a Sako. Just gotta have the opportunity and money come together at the same time.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
The 222 in a 340C with the NOE 62 gr 225-55 shot exactly what it shot with FC , RP , Win and Hornady factory 50 SPs . 2640 fps on 19.0 H332 . Turns out it's right in the middle of jacketed speeds for 62 gr jacketed. It and the 325 in 30-30 are boring, they just shot whatever I threw together and closed the bolt on .
 
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richhodg66

Well-Known Member
That's good to know. I need to get back to it.

I have three of those basic rifles, a Sears branded 340 in .30-30, Stevens 322 in .22 Hornet and the aforementioned .222. The .30-30 is like you said, not a tack driver but not picky either and a pretty honnest 2 1/4" rifle at 200 yards with deer hunting level cast loads, often better. Never put the 322 to much of a test, great with .22 WMR or a bit less ballistics at realistic small game ranges. Then I have the .222 whichhas been fine with jacketed. A prior owner restocked it and did the mod to add a rear tang screw and remove the barrel band. They also docked the barrel a little, so it ma benefit from re crowning. I need to get back to it or trade it off on another rifle, like I said, I want a nice .222 one day.
 
johnnyjr

johnnyjr

Well-Known Member
Josh said:
Fourthly, don't use any NOE bore rifer designs or you'll have issues just like your 243 issues.
Click to expand...
I got that taken care of. The powder coating was a waste of time for me. I'm now using linotype with that mold. About 106 gr with the gas checks. 7.3 gr. Of 700x . At 50 yards I can get close to 6 in a 1/4 inch. Velocity is a little over 1400 fps. Much faster and the groups get bigger..
Well,I have my 223 ready to go. I must have cleaned it good when I put it away. Not getting any copper out of the barrel. It's got a 1 lb trigger pull. Have 50 cases ready to load. I think I'm going to put a bipod on it. I forgot how heavy it is.. should prove interesting. My 243 needs a rest any way..
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
johnnyjr said:
I got that taken care of. The powder coating was a waste of time for me. I'm now using linotype with that mold. About 106 gr with the gas checks. 7.3 gr. Of 700x . At 50 yards I can get close to 6 in a 1/4 inch. Velocity is a little over 1400 fps. Much faster and the groups get bigger..
Click to expand...
Welcome to linotype and pistol powder. Nothing wrong with it for low-node loads but that's what it does.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
follow Ian's recipe with the rcbs or Lee 022-55s
give the bullet a smidge of jump.
works just fine in my 8 twist rifles.
 
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redial

New Member
I'm low-node as well. The RCBS 56gr works quite well at 50 yards in fast twist 223 and 22-250 but isn't accurate enough at 100 when practicing the Prone SF stage of the Nat'l Match course. 300 yards ain't happening with my loads at 1700, tops.
 
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