The step in the nose is for no throat Marlins like mine. I had to seat deep with the original Lee RD normal L.G. When COAL was right they shot good as did the PB version. This was @ 50 when I was tinkering with sulfur hardened alloy & ESPC. Remington range front stands were junk, our range was shut down for a year. That mould is gone but had Tom cut me one with a slightly smaller meplat & grooveless that is doing good in 30/30 & BO, going to try the PB in 308W when I get to it. IIRC Carolina bullets used the stepped nose and they shot OK in the Marlin. Kinda an attempt at a bore-rider(?).
6 Cav. Lee Tumble Lube .311 165 gr. RF Mould
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
WELL then! Ain't this gettin' more interesting my the minute!!! I now have a 165 and a 170 in hand. Both are Lee. And I also have some bullets that were given to me awhile back to test, and I THINK they are the long throat 170s, but...
And to make it all the more interesting... I bought both molds above thinking same, AND one for me and one for buddy. I have a pair of Marlin/GF 30-30's (GF will shortly become 38-55, so not really in play), and my buddy has one each Marlin/Win 94!
Oh - and the 170 is std lube grooves, not TL.
I am guessing before we figure out who gets what, there is going to be some casting and test rounds loaded and maybe even some shooting...
As they say, if this were easy, ANYBODY could do it!
And to make it all the more interesting... I bought both molds above thinking same, AND one for me and one for buddy. I have a pair of Marlin/GF 30-30's (GF will shortly become 38-55, so not really in play), and my buddy has one each Marlin/Win 94!
Oh - and the 170 is std lube grooves, not TL.
I am guessing before we figure out who gets what, there is going to be some casting and test rounds loaded and maybe even some shooting...
As they say, if this were easy, ANYBODY could do it!
Rally Hess
Well-Known Member
Oscarflytyer,
Could you also post pictures of your moulds ? This keeps getting better. I'd say Ben's mould is a Lee for sure. Looks like it has a heavier than normal sprue plate.
Waco,
Have any idea of the velocity of that load?
Could you also post pictures of your moulds ? This keeps getting better. I'd say Ben's mould is a Lee for sure. Looks like it has a heavier than normal sprue plate.
Waco,
Have any idea of the velocity of that load?
Ian
Notorious member
Yes Ben, that is most definitely a Lee, couldn't tell from the other pics though. The machining on the edges looked like NOE quality and attention to detail, and the engraving marks I've never seen on a Lee except for the newer ones which no also all have vent lines cut on top of the blocks.
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
Hopefully these show the long slender nose of the 170 vs the bigger/wider meplat of the 165. Note - the bullet in the 170 was NOT cast in this mold. It is one that some one gave a sample batch of, but it is pretty obvious it was cast in a 170 mold.
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
BTW! In photos above, in every pic, they are two diff mold halves! Trying to show comparison. One without the handle next to it is the 165.
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
And your165 looks more like the 170 of mine! And if I understand correctly, the 170 long nose is for longer throat Marlins, but may be wrong. Apparently there are a few diff versions out there!
I only have an '81 Marlin and '66 Glenfield. I do not know what constitutes an "older" Marlin with long throats... My buddy has both a WIn 94 and a Marlin (I don't know the dom).
As I said, may have to cast both, load dummies of both, and play and shoot them in all four rifles to see just what happens... Like I need another extended project! (just dammit! you guys are keeping me from boring that Glenfield to a 38-55 and setting it up!!! Enablers!)
My 336 was made in 1976. The Lee RD mould chambers fine in the same saw that will jam the NOE version. Not a bunch of difference but .020 is a lot of jam in a lever action!
Great shooting bullets. I found that 16 gr of 2400 did most of what I needed to do. I did shoot a single deer with the NOE version. I think it was a load around 32 gr of RE 15. Don't quote me on that, it was many years ago.
Great shooting bullets. I found that 16 gr of 2400 did most of what I needed to do. I did shoot a single deer with the NOE version. I think it was a load around 32 gr of RE 15. Don't quote me on that, it was many years ago.
Rally Hess
Well-Known Member
Oscarflytyer,
I think my 165 is the same general shape as your 170. That is the one that is suppose to shoot in the Marlins and the other blunter version is suppose to be for Winchesters I guess. Not sure how anybody could really say that, as there seems to be a lot of variation amongst them. Maybe I have it all wrong too. All I can tell you for sure is my rifle likes the longer nose. I'd advise shooting them both before you trade one off. I'm sizing to .311.
I think my 165 is the same general shape as your 170. That is the one that is suppose to shoot in the Marlins and the other blunter version is suppose to be for Winchesters I guess. Not sure how anybody could really say that, as there seems to be a lot of variation amongst them. Maybe I have it all wrong too. All I can tell you for sure is my rifle likes the longer nose. I'd advise shooting them both before you trade one off. I'm sizing to .311.
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
LOL! Thanx Rally. I am thinking the 170/long nose should shoot well in the Marlins. Prob keep that one. I also have a 311041 so i should be covered, even if I pick up a Win 94... and since I bought these for me and a buddy, we will prob see what works out for both of us. Once of these is the wide lube grooves too, and I like to TL, so... And think the blunt is TL - of course... Oh well!
Rally Hess
Well-Known Member
Oscar,
Are there vent lines on the face of that 165? Looks like there are some on the top, but tough to see on the face.
Brad,
I think my mould is the same bullet as the one you have pictured that is coated.
Are there vent lines on the face of that 165? Looks like there are some on the top, but tough to see on the face.
Brad,
I think my mould is the same bullet as the one you have pictured that is coated.
fiver
Well-Known Member
someone other than RD would have made the change for the Winchester.
I'm kind of dimly recalling him getting LEE to do him a very limited re-cut of the 165 for the Rossi 30-30 lever gun he has.
I can't believe AL put a mold out with that narrow base band Brad shows.
that just don't seem right at all.
OH!
is that 2 coats of candy apple there?
I'm kind of dimly recalling him getting LEE to do him a very limited re-cut of the 165 for the Rossi 30-30 lever gun he has.
I can't believe AL put a mold out with that narrow base band Brad shows.
that just don't seem right at all.
OH!
is that 2 coats of candy apple there?
Ian
Notorious member
The difference to look for is the step at the base of the nose. Brad's pictured bullets do not have it. Ben's and both of the ones OFT has all have the step. Two completely different designs.
BTW I've had the NOE like Brad's on the right there and obviously the RD-311-170RF and they will not come close to chambering in a variety of Winchesters, Savages, or even the Marlin I bought from Josh, so I don't think any of them were intended for Winchesters and the only hope would be for the stepped 311-165, maybe, if the throat has some freebore, which no Winchester I've ever seen does except for those that were put there from lots and lots and lots of use.
BTW I've had the NOE like Brad's on the right there and obviously the RD-311-170RF and they will not come close to chambering in a variety of Winchesters, Savages, or even the Marlin I bought from Josh, so I don't think any of them were intended for Winchesters and the only hope would be for the stepped 311-165, maybe, if the throat has some freebore, which no Winchester I've ever seen does except for those that were put there from lots and lots and lots of use.
The mold Ben opened the thread with is kinda the 2.0 version of the 165 RF. It was designed for use in the rifles Marlin sold after the serial # was moved to the side of the receiver, also in Winchester and Rossi rifles. The original 165 RF design was designed for the earlier Marlins before the change. I believe Michael changed the name of the original design to the 170 RF to more accurately reflect the weight and to cut down on confusion between the two designs.
That is 2 coats of copper red. I haven't tried many in the 30-30 yet, I had a hell of a time sizing them without scrapping the coating on one side. Matter of fact, I haven't shot the 30-30 in years anyway!
I have noticed that Michael made a few small changes to the designs and the names changed too. Things like the 165 becoming the 170, etc.
I have noticed that Michael made a few small changes to the designs and the names changed too. Things like the 165 becoming the 170, etc.