How do you cast for your hunting bullets?

[358156 hp]

Do you use Lyman #2 or do you cast with an unknown alloy with a desired bhn? Do you pour into a FN bullet mold with a specific alloy or do you you water drop and then remove the tempering from the tip by submerging the base into - say - ice water while heating the temp. I read in an African hunting forum that one caster test loads his cast bullets for accuracy and then adds lead until the printed groups start to spread.

Base quenching cast bullets only lasts for a short time, a week or two at best. The partially tempered alloy will finish hardening to the same bhn from base to nose in short order. We tried it. We don't know exactly what you're planning to hunt, nor do we know which caliber/bullet design/velocity you plan to hunt with, so it's difficult for us to speak beyond general guidelines. Cast bullets kill game best when we don't rely on expansion as a critical part of the process, good hunting bullets kill game by design, not features. @Ben has had success with cast hollowpoints on deer, and hopefully he'll join us here.

I was trying to get set up for using 330 gr 458 cast hollowpoints for deer earlier this year, but I was approaching the project from the wrong angle entirely. I wanted to shoot a deer with a 458 hollowpoint, but a .458 doesn't really need a hollowpoint to begin with. I bought a different mould for this, 60 grains heavier (390 gr), and with a really good meplat. Then the hunting trip got cancelled. Maybe next year.

Several years ago I shot a doe with a 307 Winchester using a standard 30/30 Lyman design 311291, a 170 gr roundnose. No hollowpoint, the bullet was cast from range scrap. A one shot stop, the doe dropped at the shot and never got back up. Perfect bullet performance? Nope, frontal neck shot, through and through. There was no evidence of expansion.

The year before that, a good sized doe at just under 50 yards, a decent offhand snap shot. She snuck up on me. 45/70, 350 gr cast RCBS. She didn't make it to the fence another 50 yards away. What do these two stories have in common? Just me, everything else was different. We all have lots of stories.

 

[Bret4207]

Thanks Bret. What is the average range for cast bullet hunters. I'd guess it is 50 yards or less for most. I'm reloading for a lot of guns and one is an sks. With its "as-issued" sights, I'm thinking that that round is 75 yards at most for hunting conditions so cast bullets are probably in the same range for most.

I think it varies with the person doing the shooting, but in general terms I'd say 100-150 yards. That's why I say hold over with the lower speed becomes an issue. But a lot of long range shooting was done with stuff like the 32-40 and 38-55 that never even approached 2K fps. It's a matter of sighting, ability to judge range/wind and PRACTICE! My hunting loads in rifles tend to be running 16-1900 fps, with some like 8x57, 308, 30-30, 35 Whelen breaking 2K and up to over 2200. For a 30-30 that's basically factory speeds with a 170 an I'm pushing 190 grs. The 308 isn't equal to factory with 180's, but a 190 FN at 2.2K isn't a walk in the park for whatever it hits. But I've got lighter 308 loads running about 1600 that I wouldn't hesitate to use if I felt the range was appropriate. You have to figure out what your personal max range is. I like the idea of putting a 9" paper plate up and seeing if you can put 5 consecutive shots in it from hunting positions- NOT off a bench. If you can only hold 5 shots at 50 yards, that's your max. If it's 100, there ya go. If you hunt an area where you take a hasty sling or use a tree or maybe cross sticks, fine, but if you pretty much have to shoot offhand, then that's how you have to test your ability. That little test took the snot right out of my boys opinion of their shooting! And mind you, that's a bright white paper plate. A deer doesn't have a bright white disc over it's heart!

I have an SKS that has been a most pleasant surprise. I forget the model, but I think it's a Yugoslavian model, has an option for single shot (non-semi auto) operation. Darn thing shoots a whole let better than I would have ever given it credit for. But yes, factory sights are...crude. I always intended to add a peep to mine, but never got a "round two it"!

 

[richhodg66]

7mm bullet after it went almost lengthwise through a normal Kansas doe, found it under the hide on her brisket. Impact distance was 30-40 yards. Only hollow point I ever used. If I use this bullet again, I may toughen up that alloy a bit, but had this been a broadside shot, I'd pretty sure it would have killed her faster.

 

[burbank.jung]

Why would a cast bullet be limited to 50 yards? I shot long range handgun competition for 35 years, only used cast bullets and we started at 50 meters, shot out to 200 meters.

I just haven't found a decent load to print a decent group yet.

 

[Rick]

I just haven't found a decent load to print a decent group yet.

Proper fit will get you there far faster than chasing a mythical BHN number. Ian has written some great posts on this forum on proper fit, they shouldn't be too difficult to find.

 

[burbank.jung]

I like experimenting with cast bullet loads and can only dream about hunting with them. That's because I live in CA where it was argued that the condor was endangered from lead, lived in an area the size of NY city and the law applied to the whole state! Then it was also presented that predators were eating lead laced dead rabbits and ground squirrels. At best, I know how to cast lead bullets.

 

[Rick]

Quite familiar with all that, I escaped California 11 years ago.

 

[burbank.jung]

Proper fit will get you there far faster than chasing a mythical BHN number. Ian has written some great posts on this forum on proper fit, they shouldn't be too difficult to find.

Everything I cast is sized for a certain gun. For example, my brother owns a Marlin and a Winchester 94. Both have different bores. And so, the accuracy loads for the Marlin use Remington brass and the Winchester uses Winchester brass.

 

[RBHarter]

Ever seen an 06' that needed 3.99 OAL to touch the lands ?
I shoot a type 38 Arisaka that needs .272 , its a 6.5 .
I shoot a type 99 in 7.7 it needs a .318 which would make it a 7.92×58 .

Dad's 25-06' so far isn't closing under an inch at 50 yd but I haven't really pushed it either the fit is good with the NOE 260-120 but it doesn't shoot 120s in jackets well either so it may be a stability fringe thing or I might just need to quit pussyfooting around and lay the hammer to it .

Nervous and excited about this new , I've decided it needs to sound expensive , 275 Rigby . I want to hunt it so I want this bullet to work I only need to get 1900 fps out of it . I know I measured the twist if it's an 8-8.5 I'm already done. If it's a 9.25-9.75 I'm on and good to go the 75/25 will get it done and it might do it on Unique. Might even do it better on Herco , but there's 4198 , 4350 , 4831 and W857 waiting in the wings with start data that should be low enough to not blow the check unfortunately it's all still in CUP not PSI .

Did I mention bismuth and tin ? Prop 65 probably says the active ingredient in Pepto causes cancer and glow in the dark fun bits .

 

[Mitty38]

I have use my lyman#2-hardball for .223. Tried it on Coyote and ground hog ( prairie dog) at 50 to 75 yards. No expansion but tumbled in the coyote.
It did plenty of damage that way.
Of course on ground hogs, straight thru, but they die easy.
The .223 load was like 3moa. An adventure developing, whole thread on it somewhere here. I use those for plinking now at 50 yards or less.

Any how the smaller bullets can be a pain to get accurate and working right in cast, especially semi auto. For the AR I stick to soft point jacketed, for hunting.

However in the 06 I took a couple hogs with straight wheel weight and a bit of tin.
Gas checked. Flat nose bullet. 100 to 150 yard Expanded well. Went all the way thru. Did a lot of damage to the meat though.

Have killed a deer in my 357 pistol, wheel weight mixed with 30 to 1. 160 grain RF.
Flat nose expanded to about the size of a .45. 60 yard. Bullet stayed inside. A lot of organ damage, but very little to the meat.
This is my limited experience.

 

[Bret4207]

Proper fit will get you there far faster than chasing a mythical BHN number. Ian has written some great posts on this forum on proper fit, they shouldn't be too difficult to find.

I linked a thread on "fit" in another of his threads.

Fit is king. Bhn is just tool to get fit, and not a major one at that. Trying to get him to listen but I imagine it's just as hard for him as it was for me.

 

[Bret4207]

Everything I cast is sized for a certain gun. For example, my brother owns a Marlin and a Winchester 94. Both have different bores. And so, the accuracy loads for the Marlin use Remington brass and the Winchester uses Winchester brass.

And how do the loads differ? What are 3 things you had to change between loads to get better shooting? There may be several but try to think of just 3 for now.

 

[richhodg66]

Everything I cast is sized for a certain gun. For example, my brother owns a Marlin and a Winchester 94. Both have different bores. And so, the accuracy loads for the Marlin use Remington brass and the Winchester uses Winchester brass.

You ever tried sizing them all the .311 and being done with it? Seems like oversize is never a problem as long as it chambers easily, but under size is most certainly a problem in anything. Your rifle's throat is really the critical dimension, not the bore.

 

[L Ross]

You want an accurate bullet? Cast linotype. You want a hunting bullet? Depends upon size. My 50/70 Sharps will dump anything from bison on down. Doesn't matter what the alloy is, it will go down.

If you are going to hunt game with cast bullets, you have to think like the British in the 1880's. Where do you have to put the solid bullet to get to the vitals? Cast bullets will never be like jacketed modern bullets.

Ric that last line should appear in gilded text! And object forced through a mammal so as to strike the spine, break the shoulders, poke through the upper half of the heart, or sever large arteries will kill your quarry with varying degrees of rapidity. I still marvel at quotes from Bell about having never "polluted" his barrel with soft nose bullets. He mentioned shooting for the renal arteries with a FMJ .275 Rigby. Talk about killing with a drill! My God, to have such skill with a rifle, and the opportunity to shoot so much game.

 

[L Ross]

I have done the cast bullet thing and have had satisfactory one shot kills and zero failures with, .30-30, 8x58 RD, .40-70 SS, .45 2 1/10th" with both greasers and PP, .30-06, .35 Whelen, .44 w.c.f., .54 cal. RB, .50 cal. RB, and .45-90. I may have forgotten one or two more.

Ya know what, it works, fine and dandy, but I probably have about, oh I don't know, enough odds and ends of jacketed bullets for hundreds of years of deer seasons, maybe thousands. I found this box of bullets yesterday and I'll probably load up 10 of them with about 35 grains of 4064 again bought cheap from an old guy at a gun show. Check my 80 yard zero and go kill another doe for the freezer.

 

[popper]

Largely Impact velocity and desired penetration.
With accuracy and that does depend on fit and bullet toughness.

 

[Rockydoc]

Ric that last line should appear in gilded text! And object forced through a mammal so as to strike the spine, break the shoulders, poke through the upper half of the heart, or sever large arteries will kill your quarry with varying degrees of rapidity. I still marvel at quotes from Bell about having never "polluted" his barrel with soft nose bullets. He mentioned shooting for the renal arteries with a FMJ .275 Rigby. Talk about killing with a drill! My God, to have such skill with a rifle, and the opportunity to shoot so much game.

Not only skill with a rifle, but knowledge of the anatomy of his target and where to aim to hit the vital part he wants to hit.
It has never occurred to me to aim for the renal arteries.

 

[Ian]

Base quenching cast bullets only lasts for a short time, a week or two at best. The partially tempered alloy will finish hardening to the same bhn from base to nose in short order. We tried it.......

they also get hard on the wrong end and have extremely squirrley BHN numbers throughout the lot until about a month of aging.

good hunting bullets kill game by design, not features.

That ought to be carved in granite somewhere...

 

[Ian]

I like experimenting with cast bullet loads and can only dream about hunting with them. That's because I live in CA where it was argued that the condor was endangered from lead, lived in an area the size of NY city and the law applied to the whole state! Then it was also presented that predators were eating lead laced dead rabbits and ground squirrels. At best, I know how to cast lead bullets.

I solved that problem for you, too.

 

[L Ross]

Not only skill with a rifle, but knowledge of the anatomy of his target and where to aim to hit the vital part he wants to hit.
It has never occurred to me to aim for the renal arteries.

It had something to do with bleeding them out. He was hunting to feed his crew on his elephant commercial hunts and he needed raw hide to wrap tusks or something. Another time, another place, but what an adventure. Have you read any of his writings?