Smith Model 625, .45 ACP

[CZ93X62]

My friend was with me, he shot the revolver and shot a BETTER group than I did. That always hurts !

Ben

Wife Marie and daughter Hannah do that with some frequency, and delight in doing so--Marie with her P-228, Hannah with my P-226 x 9mm. Marie grew up shooting 1911s, Hannah grew up shooting with me.

I hit up Wolfe Publishing last night for a copy of Issue #306 of Handloader. I let my subscription lapse in 2014 when it became more gunrag than info source. But every so often I'll pick up a copy from Barnes & Noble, and you have to be quick--they sell out quickly. I must have missed this issue, because I would have snagged it on-sight with that 45 AR info included. I like Brian Pearce's work, and I should probably re-subscribe to not miss the occasional decent article.

 

[Ben]

Can't win em' all , now can we ?

 

[Rally]

No wonder I can't find a revolver in .45 ACP, you guys have them all! Nice guns guys

 

[CZ93X62]

They are nice. Theirs isn't a huge market, one at a high-volume shop near me (Turner's in San Bernardino) sat for 8 months before it sold. Those pink/white/blue grips that came with mine do it no favors, and they got R & R'ed within minutes of arriving home. Ben's pictured revolver is the twin of my own, 4.25" barrel and Hogue neoprene aftermarket stocks. There have been 45 ACP/AR revolvers in almost constant production since 1917 when Colt New Service and S&W N-frame revolvers were chambered to fire moon-clipped 45 ACP cartridges as a wartime expedient. Colt's New Service has been out-of-print since 1940 or thereabouts; N-frame S&Ws were always slow sellers until Dirty Harry came along in 1971. But the 45 ACP wheelguns have always been around, quietly serving those who appreciate the user-friendliness and superb accuracy the combination of large frame and moderate power can provide. The 41 and 44 Magnums are really better levergun calibers than they are revolver rounds in my minority opinion. In the S&W N-frame, the 41 Magnum LSWC "Police Load" (210 grains at 950-1000 FPS) is plenty for two-legged predators, as would be the 44 Special with its 240-246 grain lead bullet pushed 200-250 FPS faster than the sedate 700 FPS of 1915 vintage ammo. Think "Skeeter's Load" in this context. Views like mine definitely run against the grain of current thinking, but I'm a Luddite. So sue me.

 

[StrawHat]

The S&W N-frame was built around the 44 Special cartridge originally...

Well, yes and no. The New Century revolver was introduced to the public in 1908 and chambered for the 44 Smith and Wesson Special cartridge. The New Century revolver was submitted for Army Testing Trials in 1906/7 and chambered for the 45 Smith and Wesson Special cartridge. The Army did not award the contract to S&W but S&W very strongly considered going public with the Triple Lock in 45 S&W Special. That did not come to pass and the public recieved the new revolver in 44 S&W Special.

S&W did order several thousands of the boxes for the New Century labeled for the 45 S&W Special cartridge. These boxes were used to ship the first batch of the 455 New Century revolvers to Great Britain. New end labels were glued over the old markings but the stamping on the inside of the box lid was left unchanged.

Probably more than you wanted to know!

Kevin

 

[fiver]

that's an exact copy of the upstairs 'house gun', except I put a hi-Vis green dot sight on the front.
it has rode with me on the 4 wheeler for a pretty large number of miles and even dispatched the worlds dumbest deer once during the hunt.

oh,, as a Trevor to lead ratio barrier, LEE makes a 165gr. 45 mold that shoots a lot better than you'd think it would.
I shoot a ton of the older magma engineering version to duplicate 38 special loads.

that little pistol is the only smiff I have anymore except the little K-22 that was the wife's G-Pa's.

 

[oscarflytyer]

I have looked off and on for a 625 after I got the 1917 and fell in love with it. Ugly Brazilian, but I got it for $350 and it shoots great. Ben's post got me to looking again. I am not a stainless fan, and found some Model 25s on GB. Man, those are nice! If one falls into what I am willing to pay...

 

[RBHarter]

Just like that , the Bubba'd example 1917 reamed to head space on 45 S&W case mouths is a great idea . I it also keeps those Rugerized Colts out of it .

 

[CZ93X62]

Was the "45 S&W Special" the same cartridge that fit in the 1875 Schofield top-breaks (45 S&W)?

 

[RBHarter]

It is my understanding that the Schofield and S&W cartridges were the same cartridge unlike the 38 S&W and 38 S&W Special .

 

[RBHarter]

1.10 vs 1.285 for the Colts .

 

[CZ93X62]

Aight, got it.

 

[StrawHat]

The S&W .45 Special is based on the "Cal. .45 Ball, Model of 1906 FA" developed in late 1905 by Frankford Arsenal* for use in testing revolvers submitted for the Army trials of Jan 1907. The case was rimmed, 0.923" in length, and was loaded with a 230-grain cupro-nickel jacketed round-nose bullet over 7.2 grains of Bullseye smokeless powder. Similar to the ACP with a muzzle velocity of 800 fps. So, just a bit longer than the 45 ACP and a bunch shorter than the 45 S&W.

About twenty revolvers were submitted for testing, three are known to be in collections. I have considered using a 455 TL to replicate the original but really like my ACP revolvers.

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

That seems to be a lot of Bullseye. I checked my notes to make sure I did not copy the number incorrectly. Wasn’t the original 45 ACP load 5 grains of Bullseye under the 230.l grain bullet?

Kevin

 

[Ben]

When I saw 7.2 of B'Eye, I thought

 

[MW65]

The "423" is the Keith bullet meant for 45 ACP revolvers, and its cavity has kind of a squatty aspect to it.

The 423 also works mighty fine in 45acp autoloaders I looks odd when it's next to a 200gr swc, but nails pine cones and other targets of opportunity with a good wollop!

-Andy

 

[fiver]

yeah the ACP was 5.


I think bulls-eye causes a lot of confusion because it is perceived as one of the very fastest powders available.
that isn't always the case, it kind of tempers itself in the higher amounts.

 

[RicinYakima]

The way I read the data, Bullseye is very sensitive to case/combustion volume. With a .45, volume get larger quicker than with say a .357 for every thousandths the bullet moves forward. Loading 32 S&W's can get very exciting with just a couple of tenths more powder.

 

[Ian]

The .45 Automatic has tiny case volume compared to the other. 45s. 7 grains of BE under a 230 grain bullet would be safe in the .45 Colt.

 

[RicinYakima]

My standard light target load for the Italian .45 SAA is the RCBS 270 grain and 6 grains of Bullseye. It is barely enough pressure to expand the cases to stop them from smokeing up.