What is a gunsmith in these modern times?

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
There is an indoor range here in town, converted from a fruit packing warehouse. They sell black guns and pistols. They have a "gunsmith" with a room to himself. While they have been open for a few years, I just paid my first visit. Being a Monday, the gunsmith was in the his shop. He has a workbench with maybe twenty screw drivers, ten or twenty punches and some jigs and fixtures. One six inch vise and a commercial size parts cleaning tank. There is an assortment of Dremel tools and a small bench grinder. No lathe, no mill not even a drill press is there. When I asked if he did any bolt bending, he didn't know what I meant.

His work is assembling parts people buy off the net to make guns. And cleaning and maintaining pistols for the gamers. So I called some on my old shooting buddies and not a one could name a gunsmith who could bend a bolt within 200 miles.
 

Ian

Notorious member
A "gunsmith" is the same thing as a "mechanic" who actually rebuilds stuff like engines, power steering gearboxes, pumps, and automatic transmissions......or carburetors if any of them still know what one is. That is to say few and far between and have been driven to be parts assemblers by the times.

Ask yourself what the demand is for turning a bolt today, or rebuilding and setting up a Quadrajet, and you'll have your answer as to why there are so few doing it.

I think a gunsmith without a lathe and mill should be called something else, maybe a "gun technician".
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I remember talking with a full time, full service gunsmith back in the late 60's or early70's. He was capable of barreling an action, but usually recommended the customer send it to Douglas. He drilled and tapped actions, installed sights and scopes and even built complete rifles on occasion. He even put a new bolt handle (turned down) on my buddies 45/70 Siamese Mauser build. What I remember most was him telling me his #1 and #2 money makers were putting together stuff guys took apart without knowing what they were doing, and doing a proper cleaning of firearms. He didn't need a lot of equipment for that.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
We have a local guy who is pretty good. He has a full machine shop and knows how to use his tools. He went to so fancy gunsmith school back in the day. I just don’t like giving him a basic project and then have to wait 6 months to get the firearm back. The guy is very hard to get ahold of and can be a bit flaky sometimes.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I just don’t like giving him a basic project and then have to wait 6 months to get the firearm back. The guy is very hard to get ahold of and can be a bit flaky sometimes.

Yeah, sounds like my gunsmith. Some of his projects have taken 25 years.
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
Most people aren’t willing to pay the price to get work done by a real gunsmith.
That extends to them not paying for hand fitted parts in new weapons as well. Skilled labor is expensive, prohibitively so. That leads us to weapons designed for mass production, touched by the fewest human hands and serviced by "parts changers".
 

Cadillac Jeff

Well-Known Member
One of the ol guys I shoot with on wen. is a real gunsmith.
But he's 93 .
He did put together my 1917 bench rifle----inch & 1/4 X 30 inch, kind of a remchester single shot still 30/06.
very cool ol guy
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Not a lot of those that call them smiths now do not even know how to braze or silver solder or use blueing salts! Not to mention the most common thing....filing parts to fit!
I needed a part made to fix my French MAB 32 acp pistol.......Nobody would touch it ( milling would be the easiest way)
I made the part out of steel.... filing it to shape for 14 hours! took in to my local machine shop to have it drilled a pinned and it was like new!
Sometimes it is best to use your own talent instead of trying to hire a modern Faux gunsmith!
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
You hit the nail on the head ! ....how many folks know how to make springs anymore !
That is a sign of a "smith"
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Most United States REAL gunsmiths are now pushing up daisies.
I had the pleasure of knowing one in Birmingham for about 25 years.
He died in 2008.

Ben
Yes, mine just died of COVID-19 in April. I'm lost now.
 

Ian

Notorious member
You hit the nail on the head ! ....how many folks know how to make springs anymore !
That is a sign of a "smith"

I can wind a pretty good coil spring, but flat springs still challenge me, I've only made a couple of them successfully and that got me a lot better at making them, meaning I think I broke three or four of them the first go before I got the temper right in the right places. Making a spring was probably lesson #2 of an apprentice, after draw-filing a hundred octagonal barrels to shape.
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
If he is not a machinist, then not a gunsmith in reality, imho. I still know two. One is much older retired machinist. I use him less, as he is 90 min from me. Other is younger than I am buy a bit (I am 57), but he is a machinist and has a full machine shop. He can make parts. His true game is building expensive race guns, but he will tear down a 100 yr old gun and make parts/clean it up/put it back together good as new. Couple examples - Made a custom sized front bead sight for my old A5 (lost orig/reamed out, etc). He made one of out brass stock. Also entrusted him to redo tang sight holes/make custom screws/custom fit tang sight to my old Argentine Rolling Block 43 Spanish. You should see some of the custom race gun stuff he does.

Also - while I am at it - there are gunsmiths/machinists. And THEN, there are Stock Makers/wood craftsmen. Also in VERY short supply. Have to call Ben out in this category! He is close to me (90 min) and done some wood repair for me. Beautiful work (THANX Ben!). And eventually would like to get him to make me a stock for the old truck gun Savage 99 in 284 Win!
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
We had a good smith here in town at Langley's. Peacock was his name he built me a 6 x47 on a small Sako action I had. Nice stock work, did the bluing at another local smiths shop. He also worked on my early Winchesters. You know the ones a poor guy could afford. I managed to pick up IIRC 5 Winchester leverguns with 3 being takedowns. Got them at a good price. Winchester leverguns were cheap back in the late 70's anyway. These were shooter quality with the takedowns being very loose, hence, unsafe, cheap. Well we could not figure out how to tighten up these guns and everybody said they were wall hangers. Peacock though he could fix them, but he wanted to reset the barrels. So put them aside for a while.

Got the idea to track down P. O. Ackley in Utah. Finally found him one day but he was pretty deaf and ended up talking to his daughter. She would pass on what my questions were and then relay his answers. Well once he understood the problem he gave instructions on the repair. P.O. Said to make a chisel-punch to fit the curve of the threads on the barrel and slowly peen one thread at a time working your way around the barrel. Try it to the action and peen a little, try it, until it would finally snug up. Relayed this to Peacock and as I was describing the method his eyes lit up as he realized the simplicity of the repair. Over the years Peacock fixed about half a dozen takedown rifles for me and quite a few other leverguns repairs. He was always interested in rejuvenating out of the norm firearms.
We have 2 Smiths that I'm familiar with here in Fairbanks, Gary Junk of Arctic Guns in North Pole, and Doug of Doug's repair for in Fairbanks proper.
In between Peacock and Doug and Gary, I made friends with Lee Penwell of Nabesna down north of the Wrangle's. Lee and I would do gun shows here in Fairbanks and Anchorage for about 10 or so years. He was into anything with a lever or just Classic older stuff. He always would get 3 tables one we would split, and 2 for he's pieces and parts. Boxes, bins, plastic divided boxes with parts and parts. Rare sites tang sites, you name it if he did not have it with him he had it at his place. Well he died about 5 years ago. Had my Browning 71 in his possession at the time. Took about a year to get it back. But my point, he was a good Smith with a full shop. He had a steel container with all his parts in just in boxes on shelves and such.. After his death his place was neglected for about a year or two and it snows a lot there. The conx partially collapsed and lots of water leaked in and ruined most everything. He lived on the road system, but at the end in a very remote area. Took a lot of effort to recover his guns and equipment. Good guy.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
I am so lucky to have a friend, a good friend, who is a mostly retired guild level gunsmith, machinist, inventor, shooter, and genuine good guy. He amazes me at the breadth of his knowledge. You cannot stump him. Best of all, he comes here to Thorn Hollow to shoot occasionally.
What a loss it will be when all these truly gifted men are gone. Why oh why have we dumbed down everything?
 

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
I am blessed to have Andy Horvath within 45 minutes. Complete machine shop, quality work, great guy, does great Ruger SA conversions/upgrades and beautiful bluing. Haven't stumped him with any of my projects. But he does have a blacklog...I think that is a good thing. I should also say he is more reasonable than a "parts changer" I know. There is another good gunsmith around here as well, SDM Fabricating, just haven't used him as much.
 
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Missionary

Well-Known Member
I am blessed to still know two fellers who can do most anything with a lathe. They would not claim to be smiths but anyone who an make a part from scrap steel ranks pretty high in my outlook. Plus they can tell me how to do what I need done.
My dad was a machinest at a GM plant for some years. One thing he did pass on was the importance of trying then thinking before the next few strokes of the file.