311334GC -308 Win Test

[35 shooter]

Won't feed from the mag. The truncated nose hits the side of the chamber walls.
I should have said won't feed instead of won't chamber.
I can shoot them single shot by hand starting them in the chamber as my extracter has a concaved area ground out for doing just that.
It will then both pick it up and extract it.
The extractor came modified like that from the Zastava factory, probably in case someone unfamiliar with a mauser tried push feeding a single round from the bench.

It works. but i don't like doing it in the mauser, modified or not.
Nose profiles like the 188 hunter or 311299 with a flat no bigger than .240 on the nose will feed fine from the mag....just not a truncated type nose.

 

[quicksylver]

Thanks for the clarification. ..that mod on the extractor is interesting..I for one would take advantage of it as I single feed most everything including my AR..The m1 beIng the exception. ..only because I punch paper..

I think it was Ben who said he had to mod his to get it to feed some bullets..

Thanks again ..Dan

 

[fiver]

some of the older Rugers come like that.
it was mostly their smaller calibers that would be used for varmint shooting.
the front of the extractor is scalloped so that it will flip open and over the case rim.

 

[Sendaro]

Dan, Thanks for getting back to me about the 315. I want to look it up on the NOE web chart. What is the complete NOE number to look for? What size are they dropping from the mold weight and base dia.? What are you pushing it with in your 30-30 loads, and how fast? I've been keeping my speeds in the high 1400 to mid 1500 range with most all of my cast in rifle. One exception in a couple of 25-20 Single shots. They are running close to 1600 or just over a little.

Sendaro

 

[quicksylver]

Sendaro..here is the NOE 315...I see that there is a limited number available at present..http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=30_350&osCsid=j0pm03k3nvukjb1d10gmi69lb1

I have a 2 cavity that I plain based one cavity ... liked it so much I bought a 2 cavity PB in brass..WHAT A MOLD..WOW!

Ben also liked his so much that he bought a brass 2 cavity pb from Tom over at Accurate Molds...if you don't care to wait for Al to run the 315's you can get Tom to cut you one..seems like it takes about 10 days or less...

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-175B-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php

I like this mold so much that if push came to shove I would sell a rifle before I sold the mold..

 

[quicksylver]

Some targets and the guns that shot them..I will post on the 30-30 later

 

[Brad]

NOE makes a very nice mould but Tom is the best. His moulds just work, he makes them quick, and he will make it the size you want for your alloy.

 

[quicksylver]

Had to resize this one..

 

[Sendaro]

Dan, Impressive targets indeed withe the 315 bullet. I looked it up on NOE. The Barrel that I'd be shooting it through has a bore that is .300 and a groove of .3080". I have been sizing my bullet at .3090" and recently came across a .3095" die that I'm about to give a try. Any suggestions to the dia. I should be sizing at or the sizes I mentioned within the right area?

Sendaro

 

[Reed]

Some targets and the guns that shot them..I will post on the 30-30 later

Amazing. How in the world can you even see that well at 100 yd through iron sights?

 

[quicksylver]

Amazing. How in the world can you even see that well at 100 yd through iron sights?

if YOU ARE IN NEED FOR SOME INTERTAINMENT YOU CAN WATCH ME TRY AND USE A SCOPE...up until last year I didn't own one...well maybe one I bought for my nephews' Ruger 1022 space gun...can't believe I put a $600.00 scope on it..worth it though..

I actually Like to use the 3" "shoot N C" targets at 100 yds with the sporter and my Win. 54 bolt 30-30's ..they shoot better than with a scope..

Nice tiny round dot on the top of that flat blade...much easier to hold windage then when using a larger target..

But to answer your question ....I don't know...just lucky I guess...I am 69 and consider myself very fortunate..and think I still have time to learn to use a scope..

 

[quicksylver]

Dan, Impressive targets indeed withe the 315 bullet. I looked it up on NOE. The Barrel that I'd be shooting it through has a bore that is .300 and a groove of .3080". I have been sizing my bullet at .3090" and recently came across a .3095" die that I'm about to give a try. Any suggestions to the dia. I should be sizing at or the sizes I mentioned within the right area?

Sendaro

Sendaro..as I said earlier I am not the most disciplined guy in the world..I like to spend time on the range rather than in the "lab"...so my approach is different than most on this site...

I don't slug my barrels or "pound cast"...what I do do when I get a new gun is to cast up some bullets..size some what I think the bore and throat maybe..and then size some up .001 and some down .001..I then load them up with anything that will get them out of the barrel..next step is to go to the range and shoot them...then I simply read the targets..one of the sizes will obviously shoot better than the others..that's the size I will use...

I am just looking for the best group...one maybe 10" the other 8"..doesn't matter... one is going to be better than the other..that's all I need to know...from there I start looking at bullet styles, powders, AOL etc...

Too many times in life I have seen things that should work don't and thing that should not do...many many times I have seen people who show up at the range trying cast bullets for the first time...going against all wisdom and accepted norms end up shooting exceptional groups..

In fact that happen when trying loads for my M1 Garand ..conventional wisdom says .." bullets of at least 200 grns and a starting load of 32 grs of x powder"..well a friend of mine brought his m1 to the range to try it with cast bullets ...180 gr Lee ,behind 32 grs of powder..three rounds touching right off the bat..

So I loaded up some of my 155 grns behind 30 grs of the same powder.. shot them out of my M1 ..1st round out 2" next four 7/8"..
tried another 5, 1 1/4"...yup those don't work...

My 700 VS using the above method told me it liked the .310..and it does..
The 1917 took me from .311 to .313
One well shot out 03 match gun was brought back to all of its' previous glory with .312
The other 03's and a3's told me they preferred .311
The 30-30 with out question preferred the .310
The M1 couldn't really make up its mind but I settled on .310

Two items then I will go;
1. an overly large nose is better than a too small one..
2. I buy Lee .309 push through sizers and hone them out with a wooden dowel and emery cloth..
3. An extra..I would go with a .310 sizer and at least a .302 nose in the .308 VS...mine has plenty of space for the longer bullets..don't know about yours..

Thanks for listening...Dan

PS.. look at the target below and tell me what size you would use..

 

[quicksylver]

As for the 30-30...Here is one of them ..the other is iron sighted and I actually shoot it better..

 

[Sendaro]

Dan,

At present I have .309, .3095. and a .313 sizer. I guess that I need a .310 and a .311. Will take your advice into my action planning.

Test fired my CPA 30-30 at our shooting house today. Shot 311332GC .3095, 311334GC .3095, NOE 311-202 PB. Hands down the 311334GC shot the best with IMR4227. I have to tweak the powder charge a little more and I think that it the load that I take to the next 500 yard match. It was grouping about 1.25" at 100 yards.

The NOE was being pushed a little too hard with SR4759 at 1675 to 1700 fps avg. They did about 2" groups at 100 yards. Much vertical. Planning to reduce the load.

Thank you, Sendaro

 

[fiver]

until recently [thanks Brad] I only had a .310 sizer.
I worry more about nose engraving than 309 or 3095 etc.

 

[quicksylver]

until recently [thanks Brad] I only had a .310 sizer.
I worry more about nose engraving than 309 or 3095 etc.

Fiver ...I am beginning to think that is the real secret to obtaining exceptional accuracy...

 

[fiver]

I spend quite some time fiddling with my alloy until I get firm even engraving on the nose,
and until I get my mold temp window settled in [visual cues]
after that I might play with water dropping or heat treating.

but I am a firm believer in the nose doing much of the initial work. [before the trigger is even pulled]
a good design has fitment mostly covered in shape and such, but the nose is kind of 'is what it is'
any help we can give it in slump support, and it's ability to hold rifling under acceleration pay's big dividends.

 

[Ben]

Lamar............
I made mention here about the nose of cast bullets " slumping " and got corrected pretty quickly by one of the more knowledgeable members.
According to him there is no such thing as nose slump ? ?

 

[quicksylver]

Lamar............
I made mention here about the nose of cast bullets " slumping " and got corrected pretty quickly by one of the more knowledgeable members.
According to him there is no such thing as nose slump ? ?

Well Ben...I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN...canted ..MIGHT be a better term ..but what ever is correct the nose ends up not concentric with the bore....Don 't even know if that is correct..

 

[fiver]

slump is kind of misleading though since it happens from the back not the front.
it is possible for unsupported lead to try and move until it finds a place.
it is especially noticeable with long skinny noses.

push something like the rcbs 30-165 silh. hard [1950 fps] with a fast powder and find it in the snow pile later in the year.
change it to a stronger alloy and find it again.
I bet one still looks like it did before you fired it.
[BTW I do shoot the rcbs bullet and I cast it from 4% tin and 6% antimony]
that bullet depends almost entirely on the nose to do its job, the harder [slightly] larger nose bullets shoot much, much more accurately.
the design and shape and alloy all dictate success, how you launch them makes a difference too and needs to match.
16-1700 fps lets you get away with a lot of things because your not really stressing the alloy or design so much but step things up just a bit and you lose accuracy.
it surely isn't the twist rate of the barrel [your still under the thresh hold] the lube ain't failing, you probably switched powder and have the same pressure.
so why did you lose accuracy.
you damaged the bullet somewhere.
well the back is already filling the barrel [or you'd have gas cutting and leading]
so...