311334GC -308 Win Test

[Ian]

Lamar............
I made mention here about the nose of cast bullets " slumping " and got corrected pretty quickly by one of the more knowledgeable members.
According to him there is no such thing as nose slump ? ?

Nose slump from static moment set-back is a persistent myth. Getting bumped up from behind is what happens and if the bump is too sudden for the alloy and the bullet doesn't fit the rifle, the nose can easily get steered into the side of the barrel or expand to flow into the grooves unevenly. I preach balance of alloy and powder burn/pressure curve constantly and this is why. Some flow is OK, and actually can work in your favor if you manage it properly with initial bullet fit (in THREE dimensions), but if your support is wrong somewhere and your alloy is wrong or your bump rate is wrong the bullet is bound to get mangled. Lamar describes this better than I could below....

slump is kind of misleading though since it happens from the back not the front.
it is possible for unsupported lead to try and move until it finds a place.
it is especially noticeable with long skinny noses.

push something like the rcbs 30-165 silh. hard [1950 fps] with a fast powder and find it in the snow pile later in the year.
change it to a stronger alloy and find it again.
I bet one still looks like it did before you fired it.
[BTW I do shoot the rcbs bullet and I cast it from 4% tin and 6% antimony]
that bullet depends almost entirely on the nose to do its job, the harder [slightly] larger nose bullets shoot much, much more accurately.
the design and shape and alloy all dictate success, how you launch them makes a difference too and needs to match.
16-1700 fps lets you get away with a lot of things because your not really stressing the alloy or design so much but step things up just a bit and you lose accuracy.
it surely isn't the twist rate of the barrel [your still under the thresh hold] the lube ain't failing, you probably switched powder and have the same pressure.
so why did you lose accuracy.
you damaged the bullet somewhere.
well the back is already filling the barrel [or you'd have gas cutting and leading]
so...

And after getting all that ironed out we go try to make it work in an autoloader at near J velocities with the nose hanging in space and a loosey-goosey cartrige fit in the chamber with the extractor and ejector torquing the whole thing sideways a few degrees.....and this is how we lose our hair....

 

[Kevin Stenberg]

Ian I went back an looked in the TTT section. Are you going to do another write up on the balancing act of powder and alloy? I am hoping you will! Kevin

 

[Sendaro]

Last Monday I fired a test target with the Lyman 311334 GC bullet from my 308 Remington 700 LH rifle. The report of that test is what I started this thread with. Today I test fired again with nearly the same load. I changed the powder charge to 17.5 grains of SR4759 and switched to a different gas check. Instead of using the Hornady copper GC I used a sample of Josh's aluminum checks he sent me to try. When you review the test target be advised that the one shot out of the 5 shot group in my fault. Shot #1 not being set for the 1.25 MOA windage correction over the setting I use for jacketed bullets in this rifle was not made. I made the correction and fired the next 4 shots. Again I'm pleased with the test results and have placed an order with Josh for a few K of his fine product. Thanks Josh for the sample . Sendaro

 

[quicksylver]

Great shooting....
One question...any idea why the single hole is not round?

 

[Sendaro]

There were several layers of old targets on the target board at the time, and I stapled over them. You can see the rip in the paper from where the staple was to the lower right. The only other thing I can accredit it to is an unstable bullet. However the last four were right where they were appointed to be. Now I will start to test at longer ranges.

Sendaro

 

[Reed]

I am blown away by the groups you guys post. Something to aspire to.
Reed

 

[JWFilips]

Very Nice shooting!

 

[Sendaro]

Guys, Thanks for the complements. However I post these targets and load information to share what I've have learned. After all getting the rifle to shoot accurate and dependable is a big part of the enjoyment. If one of you take the information and use it great. If you build on it and make things better then share them will all.

Sendaro

 

[quicksylver]

Just waiting fot the BLL coating on my NOE 311332'S .. (Lyman 311334)...to dry and the rain to stop..then off to the range with my 700 VS..

 

[Intheshop]

Very nice shooting.I have one and it's a tackdriver.

On the "slump" thing....just opinion and observation dinking around with skinny 6mm and 224.How round the nose is must be part of the equation.I made nose sizing top punches with very accurate D reamers .You can definitely see the "sizing" marks on as cast nose(bore riders).

Don't want to get too hung up on pressure used sizing....swaging is a deep subject,change one seemingly insignificant item with either hdwr or software and ,well there goes the discussion.

But get the pressure"just right",maybe bump a few "tenths" (.0001)....and it's like flipping a light switch on accuracy.Takes a 1" @ 100 .243 and gets it into JB bragging group territory.Keep the wind out of it.

Ash Wednesday,BW

 

[Sendaro]

Quicksylver,
I want to hear the results of your test with the NOE311332s. What does BLL stand for. I'm assuming it is something with a bullet lube or coating. I have both the Lyman 311332 GC and the Lyman 311334 GC molds. There is a difference in them. Are you saying the NOE 311332 is more like the Lyman 311334 a little longer and heavier that the Lyman 311332? Please advise. I don't think that Lyman has the 311334 GC mold available any more. Happy that we have makers like NOE in biz. BTW I'm seating that bullet in a Wilson hand die so that it is engraved about .020" by the lands.

Intheshop, I have become aware of the nose of bullet being slightly out of round. Have ordered a sizing bushing at .300' dia. and plan use it to make them round.

Sendaro

 

[quicksylver]

I'll make a short story long if you don't mind spending the time reading it...

A year or so ago I ordered a mold from Lyman..in their catalogue it was listed as the 311332..

When I got it I set to casting with it... .it turned out to be their old 311334 ..the 190 gr version of that bullet design..
this particular mold was of their usual quality ..OUT OF ROUND..so I played with the pins and got it a little closer to where it should be.

Despite the fact that it was out of round it shot beautifully out of my 03's and 03A3's..encouraged by the results I sent some samples off to Al at NOE..
he ran a group buy and decided to make the bullet design a stock item...so there it is ... a good bullet with the wrong designation...the 311332 from NOE is in fact an old Lyman 31334.

BTW ...I would want the nose to be at least .302...but that's me..Dan

 

[Sendaro]

As Paul Harvey would say " And now you know the rest of the story". Thanks for sharing that bit of info with me. I have a Lyman 2 cavity that I bought about 5 years ago in 311332GC, and more recently I acquired a single cavity 311334GC, again another Lyman mold. The 311332 nose is running about .301 to .3025 depending on where I measure it. The 311334 GC has a nose that is running .298 to .301, again depending on where I measure it. Both bullets are shoot OK at 100 yards, but 200 yards is the next step in the tweaking of my loads. Only test firing will tell what there is to know. This I plan to do within the next few weeks.The bore of my one rifle is a tight .300 and another one about .3005", and still another that is yet to be measured.

I have never lapped a mold and I'm not really sure how that is done, but the nose of both of these bullet may improve some from that. I will have to look into how to lap a mold. Any suggestions?

Sendaro

 

[quicksylver]

When using Lyman molds...Remember they were to be cast with #2 alloy...anything softer will come out smaller...

Can"t remember if you said what alloy you were using..

 

[Sendaro]

It's close to a No#2, but bullets from the 311334 GC mold are dropping out at 194 grains, so it maybe a bit softer.

 

[quicksylver]

Close to #2 in BNH or composition..I try and balance the tin and antimony to achieve the size and hardness I want.....

 

[Sendaro]

In composition as close as I can figure. BTW how did the 308 test shoot go?

 

[Sendaro]

Quicksylver,

The bullets that are cast in the NOE mold you mention with the wrong designation---> a good bullet with the wrong designation...the 311332 from NOE is in fact an old Lyman 31334. What is the length of that bullet with a gas check? From My mold the 311334 w/ GC are 1.194", and the 311332GC w/ GC measure at 1.145".

Both bullets shoot very well for me at 100 yards. Now I plan to start testing more and tweaking the loads at 200 yards and beyond. Plans are to do this with both the Rem 700 in 308 1 in 12" twist, and the CPA in 30-30 1in 10 twist.

Any thoughts on powder and speeds?

Sendaro

 

[quicksylver]

My 311332 from NOE measures....are you ready ..with gas check..1.172....s-o-o-o-o..it's not either...good a new bullet design!!!!...
It weighs out at 190 grs sans gas check.....??..yours

 

[Sendaro]

The 311332 is running 184 with the check and lube and the 311334 is running 197 with the check and lube. My alloy maybe a little on the soft side.
The next time I cast up a batch I plan to make the alloy a little harder.

Have given some thought to that mold in a NOE PB. Any thoughts?