7.65 Mauser musings

CWLONGSHOT

Residing in New England
Is anyone loading and casting for this one of these critters? ;)

I have had them for decades most as platforms for custom rifles in other calibers. A couple got shot a bit as 7.65's.

Two years back I picked up a 1889 Belgium Mauser largely because it was made in my home state of Connecticut! Its in average condition with a nice bore and all matching only issue is safety it works but its sxrew is "screwy" I made up 20-30 pcs of brass and loded up some light cast loads but never have shot it. Last fall a hauled it out and went thru it completely and even made up and posted a video to my uTube channel. A Couple weeks back, I pulled more '06 brass and made up more brass. Well I was stupid and lost many because I didnt set the dies proper. So last week I made up 100 properly and only lost a single case. Even that one was 100% me as I just rough chopped it short.

I also have a 1909 that was destined to be a 257 Bob but it has sat for over a decade... SO, I decided to leave it 7.65. Couple days ago, I stocked it and then mounted a scope. Im waiting on a Timney trigger and It can go to Finish. I might just do a rattle can camo on thsi one. I have only ever painted one shotfun before. .

Looking thru my dies I find two they should work well and four more that are fat enough to work with PC. My 314299 & 312-155 2R molds. Of the other four, a 311335 & 311284 HP are best. Even that LEE is lighter then I want to shoot. (Unless building just plinkers)

Yesterday I cast up a couple hundred 311284HP bullets. They dropped 315 with Soft WW alloy. (Should be 12bhn) For me everything revolves around my ability to hunt with it. So with my newly formed cases and these bullets Ill work up Loads looking for 1800+ fps then test expansion and adjust alloy. I know at that vel ill need harder alloy but its what I had in the pot.

Has anyone forded this river? Love to hear your experience. I am kinda amazed at all the 7.65 videos on eBay! I paost up a four part series on how I made 30/06 into 7.65 Mauser brass to add to them.
:o
:P
;)


I know that 314299 is well respected for these fat 30's (303/7.62x54r and 7.65) But I am really hoping this 311284 hp (sourced here) can be made to shoot well. Im lookkng at 4759,3031 & 2400. But open to suggestions. Again targeting 1800+ but dont rely upon high velocity as always accuract @ +1800 will prevail.
As always comments and opinions are much appreciated. I have a good idea but know we can always learn something.
(Esp here you guys are an amazing source of sage information )

CW

Link to my uTube channel if anyone in interested. https://youtube.com/user/cwlongshot
 

Bret4207

Northern NY Dangerous extremist...???
I have both a '91 and an '09. I've had excellent results with the GB "Fat 30" mould. I forget the specifics, but I know I sized to .314 which was basically just adding lube and hardly touching the sides at all. My alloy was the same as I've used for years and is mostly 40 year old WW, runs about 13-14 Bhn, so not hard at all. I wasn't pushing things much past 1800 or so using faster powders and it shot very nicely in the '91. I used Grafs brass, I forget who made it. I'd think something like the 284HP at 1800 would be more than adequate for WT sized critters. FWIW, my barrel on the '91 is very, very nice. The '09 remains stockless and pretty ugly. It's a "someday" project.
 

JustJim

Active Member
I had one as a truck gun for a while back in high school: I wanted a carbine, found a 1909, so all was good. Brass was all converted '06 brass, ran it into a form/trim die. The only bullet I can recall using was a special order oversized 311284 I picked up at a gun show. Bullet was shot unsized (.317") with Lyman gas checks and NRA formula lube smeared in the grooves. Per my notes, the load I settled on was 50 grains of 4831. (Surplus 4831, at one point I had 50# or so.) Looking at the charts today, the load was probably in the 2,000 fps range.

It got typical farm gun usage. Predators, took at least one mule deer that I recall. When a friend's son took a job in Wyoming, I gave him the rifle, dies, etc. He used it as his only hunting rifle for a few years, for typical Wyoming game, with no problems. Last I knew his son was working as a fishing guide, and had it "just in case".

I liked the action, was never a fan of the cartridge. The oddball chambering/bullet diameter made it difficult to find factory ammo or components.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I shot one at the CBA military nationals one year as my second rifle, middle of the pack. It was an 1891 with a throat so long the '284 would not touch the origins of the rifling with just the gas check in the case.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Residing in New England
Hahayea my 1889's throat is "CAVERNOUS". I should name the rifle Linda... :oops: :oops:

My 1909 is "normal large" the 311335 chambers with resistance but its also overly fat. The 314299 and 311284 both chamber while crimping in top grease groove. :p So the 335 is likely just fat...

CW
 

Bret4207

Northern NY Dangerous extremist...???
Where I grew up the 7.65 Argie was fairly common. We stocked ammo for it in the gun shop, either Norma or CIL Dominion brand. The Norma stuff was pretty hot! People look at the 91's and think they have to be weak. Well, maybe I wouldn't try to make one into a 220 Swift, but as with the 93's and 95's (and '96's!) they aren't near as prone to deadly explosions from pressures higher than a 22 short produce as some seem to think.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
stick that 314299 in the case so it feeds from the magazine and put 16grs. of 2400 behind it.
size to 314 since that's all your gonna get from it, and water drop from the mold.
don't try to make it hard.

24 grs of H-322 with a filler is also very, very accurate.
 

Maven

Active Member
I purchased one (Mod. 1909) when I had my FFL ~30 yrs. ago. In spite of a less than pristine bore, it is quite accurate, especially so once had my gunsmith install a Lyman receiver sight. I also changed the front "barleycorn" to an almost Patridge type from a Swedish Mauser. I form brass from .30-06, which I have a bit of and cast bullets from a CBE (Jim Allison) brass 2 cavity mould (Loverin; sized to .313"). Under 12.5gr. Unique and rested @ 50 yd., I get one big hole IF I pay attention. Other than the changed sights and a BR follower, the rifle is "as issued" and a joy to shoot. Btw, it also does well with IMR 4198 and 42 - 44gr. WC860 + Win. LR Mag. primers.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Residing in New England
stick that 314299 in the case so it feeds from the magazine and put 16grs. of 2400 behind it.
size to 314 since that's all your gonna get from it, and water drop from the mold.
don't try to make it hard.

24 grs of H-322 with a filler is also very, very accurate.
I will try your 2400 load.
The 311284 is same same as 314299 in looks and feeding. (In dummies)

Not a fan or fillers in bottle necks. I do have a couple bottles of GREX...

CW
 
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462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
My '96 dated '91 Argentine's barrel was shortened to 24 1/2" (looks like a long engineer carbine), the bolt handle was turned down, and Lyman globe front and receiver sights added. The tang was drilled and tapped, an Allen head set screw threaded down to take up play in the trigger's first stage, and I have it set for 2 1/2 pounds.

Dual accuracy loads are the Lee 312-185 with either 16-grains of 2400 or 19-grains of 4759.
 

Bret4207

Northern NY Dangerous extremist...???
The 16x2400 works for me. So did the 13xRed Dot until I saw the pressure numbers. With the faster, easier to light powders position didn't seem to be a big thing and fillers/buffers weren't needed. Some of the more traditional slower cast powders have worked well in the 7.65 and 8mm but I've not tried any of the "full speed" slower powders or looked for velocities that needed them. A FN at 1800 kills rocks and porkies just fine.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
well.
just pointing out that there is a difference between a buffer and a filler.

you gotta remember we have a lot of on lookers that don't post here, and that many of them are probably brand new to this.
we can kick each other around some cause we got a bit thicker skins and we know [usually] if the other guy is being a dick or being serious.
someone just popping their head in the door see's a lot of what we write and then goes ahead and put's it in the little storage bank for next week's adventures.

they see a grain of filler or whatever being tossed out there, and they make the grex to filler connection somehow, and you end up with a bunch of rubber BB's rolling around in a 223 case half full of red-dot.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Residing in New England
;) Of coarse there is a difference. It says so right on the bottle and the bag!!;)

Point is there are many ways to do things and not many of us do them all. The use of Grex is as viable as dacron. BOTH carry the same cautions and IMPROPER USE of either can ruin a other wise good barrel.

YES, I was slightly taken aback by the comment, as Super Grex has been used and accepted by many folks for many decades as a filler as well as a buffer in shot shells. Simply to state its a buffer not a filler, prompted my reply. Because under that same guise, the makers of Dacron pillow filler never thought it would be used in reloading light powder charges in metallic cartridges. :p But BOTH DO AND WORK. So the comment while pointed at GREX SHOULD BE PLAINLY stated that IMPROPER use of ANY filler can cause issue.
This is why Id prefer to just choose a powder that doesn't require a filler.

For newbies or folks who just read. Know that ALL FILLERS CAN CAUSE RINGED BARRELS
.

Im generally not speaking to those who dont comment. But understand about posting inaccurately and agree we do owe it to all to post safely.

I am not upset :cool: and I VERY MUCH appreciate all opinions and COMMENTS and no, they do not have to agree with mine. :rolleyes::) I like to read and learn a s enjoy the camaraderie. But know that I am not without experience. Please do not take my quiet as a lack of knowledge. The good lord gave us TWO eyes and TWO ears but only ONE MOUTH for good reason.;)
Having said all that... IIm also aware that the written word is open to much personal interpretations and easily and usually misconstrued. If I am off base here, I apologize. Also, apologies for this interruption and will thank everyone for the comments and recommendations provided thus far.
CW
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
not a problem CW.
I just have to remind myself from time to time we ain't really just sitting on the front porch kicking stuff around amongst ourselves.
fillers, duplex loads, too slow, too fast, primers,,, you know what I mean for the most part, but it took us a number of years to get here.
it took me jeezus 4 years to figure out what the ogive was, simply because I had nobody to talk to, then when I did figure it out it was because of a math equation I run across for figuring the nose shape.
then it was like ooooh,,, well, that was simple.
 

Bret4207

Northern NY Dangerous extremist...???
Fiver, I remember the days when you'd read something, not understand it and file it away. Years later you'd read something else, figure out what it meant and then the light would go on. Then came the internet. Good Old Felix Robbins cleared more stuff up for me in 2 or 3 months than 20 some years of reading had done!
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I spent several hours with a forum member of the other place of course the conversation went this way also .
These forums allow us to sweep up the first 4-5 chapters of casting books and filter them down to the very core of the information and basics . In 6 months a guy can go from cold mould why won't they fill out to .0005 sizing with WW-lino 20-1 closed my paper groups another .250" . They allow us to build on all of the shared successes , avoid months of reading , sorting out what we should have from what is really needed , and allow us to spend a lot more time doing an trying, than mired down , slogging through what's been done 1000 times . I guess we don't have to learn the hard lessons in the first person through the forums at least not all of us .

If I'd had to go it alone , and figure it all out by myself , there's no way I'd be casting for rifles and pretty unlikely I'd be shooting many of the ones I am at all . I don't think PC would be a thing at all . PP would be some sort of Voodoo level 90 wizard stuff . Probably just because it isn't mentioned and nobody thinks about it .